129, Unexpected Insights from The Things You Resist + Transformational Coaching Tips, with Joanna Lindenbaum

Bront'e Singleton 0:00

Hey, hey, this is Bront'e Singleton, current client and student of the incubator, the most amazing program that I've ever been in in my entire life. I just wanted to take a moment to share how amazing this program has been for me, my mindset, my business, my progress, and the wins that I've had since joining the program. So since joining the incubator, I've grown more confident in myself as a business woman as a person, and then my expertise and my ability to run my business. I was recently able to launch my course for language learners, which is amazing. And it was a huge undertaking. And because of this, I was able to make two sales on my first launch of my course, within my business as a whole, I've been able to create a system for content creation, and streamlining that process in a way that works for me and my business. So I'm less stressed out about what to post when and how. And the biggest thing which I never thought I'd be doing in my first year of business is that I created and turned on my evergreen funnel. The Incubator has given me the tools to be able to focus my time and attention on the things that really move my business and help my business grow, but also take time to take care of myself because if I'm not well, I don't have what I need, then I can't serve the people that I want to serve. So I 1,000% love the incubator program and I'm so glad so glad that I joined.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:18

You're listening to the Success with Soul podcast where we believe empowering women is the key to creating a brighter future for us all. Whether you're an entrepreneur, employee or stay at home mom, this podcast is for you. I'm your host Kate Kordsmeier and ICF life and business coach who has made over 2.2 million while working less than 25 hours a week, raising two toddlers, and quitting social media. I'm here to transparently share my expertise and help you create a life and business you love. Together with my diverse team of passionate women, many of whom you'll hear from on this podcast. We empower 1000s With holistic strategies, personal development resources and mindset tools to find freedom, flexibility and fulfillment and business and beyond. Every week we offer life coaching for Busy Women who want to improve their relationships, self care and overall well being and business coaching for coaches, course creators and consultants who want to make money sustainably. We believe personal growth and entrepreneurship are powerful tools for creating social change. And the world is a better place When more women find their voice and create their own money, power and freedom. Expect candid conversations and insightful interviews with experts that will inspire and support you on your path to intentional whole living and Success with Soul on your terms. It's time to ditch the hustle and find inner peace. Here we go

Indira 2:48

Welcome back to the Success with Soul podcast. I'm your guest host Indira with Team KK and with us today is Joanna Lindenbaumb. Joanna and I had such a great conversation. She is an expert in transformation who helps coaches and healers take their coaching skills to the next level. She believes that the coaching healing consulting and transformational industries have the power to change the world in extraordinary ways. Joanna also believes that as these industries have grown practitioners have focused more on marketing, and less on mastering their craft to deliver the highest quality sessions. She's on a mission to change that. Joanna uses her 20 years of experience with human behavior embodiment practices, and archetype and shadow to inform her secret depths practitioner certification, where students gain a level of skill, confidence and death when it comes to fears, blocks, self sabotage, and procrastination that the majority of their peers don't have. In today's episode, Joanna teaches us how to identify the seven resistance archetypes. She also walks us through a six step somatic process to navigate resistance. We go into why going all in and client transformation is actually the best marketing play. And she teaches us how to tap into what she calls the three R's. I'm so excited to dive into this episode. Let's go!

Joanna, it's such a pleasure to have you on the Success with Soul podcast. Thank you so much for being with us today.

Joanna 4:42

I am so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Indira 4:45

Yeah, I'm so excited. Just off camera. I was telling you that I wanted to really talk about this archetypes. It's something that this is the first time I've actually hear about it. So before we jump into that, let our audience know a little bit about you and your entrepreneurial journey.

Joanna 5:07

Yeah, absolutely. So I have been coaching and training coaches and therapists and healers for about 20 years now. And I started with seems like so long. I started off as a business coach, and I was supporting clients to help them build their businesses and their practices. And what I noticed along the way, a couple of years in, is that the reason why my clients were having so much success was yes, it was because of the marketing strategies I was teaching them, for sure. But what I saw was kind of even more of a factor is that they were taking my modeling on how to co create transformation with their clients and their clients were so excited about the results that were being created, they were resigning with them and referring out and that my clients, businesses had really become these beautiful resign and referral machines. So at that point, what I realized was, Oh, that's really what I'm doing here. And I kind of shifted more formally into training practitioners, how to go deeper with clients, how to co create more transformation, and how to do it all in an ethical and trauma informed way.

Indira 6:31

I love that. I love that. Can you tell me a little bit more about what does that mean? What is going all in with client transformation mean?

Joanna 6:41

Yeah, absolutely. So I love the coaching industry. And that being said, and I believe in it so deeply. And that being said, a lot of what has happened in the last, you know, let's say 5-10 years is that there are a lot of marketing promises that are being made, but not necessarily fulfilled. There's a lot of incredible expertise out there that coaches and practitioner have a lot of great "how to" information and how to grow your business, how to have a fulfilling relationship, how to be healthy. But a lot of times that's not being paired with what I would call transformational skills, with the kinds of skills that support clients to be able to use that incredible information. Because human beings are messy, we can't just take like the five steps to something always and execute it. We have fears that come up, we have limiting beliefs that come up, we have obstacles that come up, resistances, shadows, and what I have really seen across the board is in order to co create results with clients, we want to combine that incredible expertise we have with the ability to support our clients to move beyond those fears, and those habits so that they can execute.

Indira 8:04

And what have you found working with your clients, guiding them as they're guiding their own clients through transformation? What have you found to be, I'm not gonna say the most important, but what has been key in every single one of these stories?

Joanna 8:24

Yeah, it's such a great question. I love it. It's a hard question to because I want to answer 10 different things. There are so many key things. But if I had to pick one, and this is where I always start with all of my trainings. And then we weave this throughout. It's what I would call "practitioner energetics". So what that means is, no matter what technique you're using, no matter what modality, you know, how great you ask questions, all of that, where all of it starts is the practitioner, who the practitioner is what the practitioner feels and believes how the practitioner is showing up. So what I always like to tell practitioners is that energy follows energy. So if you're showing up with an energy of not feeling confident in yourself, and your ability as a practitioner, the client in one way or another is going to feel that and not have as much competence in you. If you as a practitioner are showing up without having confidence in your client, like oh, I don't think she's going to do the homework or she's not really going to get this or she's not going to follow through. Doesn't matter what you say, in one way or another. The client is going to feel that energy follows energy. If you show up as the practitioner being scared of your client, oh, if I reflect that truth, my client is gonna get angry or get upset so I'm going to hold back that energy permeates that container. And so where everything starts is from the practitioner being in aligned energetics believing I am whole and complete as a practitioner, and you client are whole and complete. I am not here to fix anything, I am not here to save you. We are here to come together to hold space for results and transformation to happen. When you start with that, then you find the right words for the breakthrough questions. It's easier to navigate through fear all of the things.

Indira 10:36

Yeah, I love that you said we're not here to fix you. Because I think that's so important for both the practitioner and the client to go from that space. Right. We're here to transform, but there's nothing to be fixed. I think a lot of the times, there's that misconception of fixing, needing to be fixed.

Joanna 10:59

Yeah. And when there's that misconception, first of all, it's a ton of pressure on the practitioner, because we can't do that, you know, that's us taking over responsibility. And then the attitude is taking away from a client's empowerment as well.

Indira 11:17

Absolutely. I'm also a certified coach, and I'm a law of attraction coach. And one of the things that is inherent in our teaching is that you have all the answers within, yeah, it's my job to just ask the questions that are gonna prompt you because you have all the answers, we don't have the answers you do. So I love that you bring that out. So tell me a little bit about how to grow a business without like the marketing hype, and instead really delivering world class transformation. What does that look like?

Joanna 11:58

Yeah, so I mean, marketing is always important. I don't want to pretend like it's not. But what I have really seen for myself and for so many of my students and clients is that it takes so much more time, effort, energy, and money, to constantly be looking for new clients, for new streams of leads, you know, that like all the effort that it takes to put into ADS and funnels, and not that I don't do those, I definitely do some of that. And the strategy that takes less time and effort and money is doing the really quality work with clients. When you are able to really co create that transformation, a client is more willing, or not even willing, but excited to first of all, to resign with you. So I have clients, my students have clients that we retain for years and years and years. And not because the client feels they need us it's not a crutch. It's because the transformation is so palpable, and then they're ready for the next level and the next level. So a resign doesn't cost any marketing money. You don't have to, you know, create a lot of copy and, you know, fancy email funnels for it. You need to have good resign skills, you know, you need to know how to support a client that is finishing up with a cycle to see what is it that I want next? How do I want that? So resigns can just increase any business. So many businesses are losing money because they're not retaining clients. And then the other thing is referrals. So when you are co creating transformation with clients, and they are so thrilled about the work that you're doing together, they're much more likely to share about you on social media to share with their friends about you, all of that. And so again, a much cheaper way of bringing new clients and, and then the third, I always say it's the three R's when you're creating transformation, so resigns, referrals and reputation. Your reputation precedes you when you're co creating transformation. But more than that, when you know that you're following through on your marketing promises, all of your marketing becomes that much stronger, because you can stand in it in integrity, knowing that what you're letting prospects know is what you're going to deliver on.

Indira 14:49

Sorry, I had to mute myself because I was having a coughing attack.

Joanna 14:53

I was gonna see if your okay!

Indira 14:56

Thank you. I love the tapping into the three R's and I want to and to kind of pedal back a little bit on resigns, and you said something you said the cycle, you said you've had some clients you've been with for years. So tell me what does that look like? So you start, like, for example, a cohort. And now that's done. And now you're organically just moving through different things?

Joanna 15:24

Great question. So we can kind of look at it a little bit differently between one on one clients, and then group programs. So with one on one, first of all, I always recommend to people don't just do one off sessions. And don't just kind of continue on with sessions without having a container this many months, and this many sessions for many, many, many reasons. But since we're talking about resigns, I'll kind of put it in this perspective, when you just have a client that's ongoing forever. Without this is the package, and this is the amount of time, it becomes a little bit harder, first of all, to track results. And then to track new goal. So when you've just got like this ongoing forever, things can get a little loose and messy, and purpose can be lost along the way. But when you know, okay, we have we're gonna coach for six months, and at the beginning of that container, you've set your goals, what is it that you want to work on? What is it that you're looking at, then when you get to the end of those six months? It's a beautiful opportunity to say, Okay, what do we want to celebrate from those six months? What was learn what worked, you know, what didn't happen? And then take all of that and say, Okay, now from this new place, what do you want to accomplish over the next six months? And let's see if it makes sense for me to support you with that. It's in terms of transformation and CO creating results with clients, it's a much more effective way of looking at things than just ongoing. Yeah.

Indira 17:09

I love that. But I do love that you have like a start and finish, we can look at the results. And then moving on to the next one. Now we have new goals to work on that really make sense.

Joanna 17:23

Yeah, new goals and new information, like over this last six months, this and this. And this really worked to help you achieve your goals. For the next six months. This was one of the gap places the last six months. So we're going to tweak that a little bit more. It helps in so many ways. In terms of groups. I have people that go through my groups like my initial sacred depths training, and then they continue with me for other trainings and other training. So you asked how that works. I have advanced trainings after that. And then clients have, and students have like begged me to create continuity programs after that. But again, all with containers. Those are usually a year long bucket. This is what we're going to accomplish this year. And then again,

Indira 18:12

I love that.

Kate Kordsmeier 18:16

Well, hey there, it's Kate Kordsmeier, and I wanted to play a quick game with you. Let me know which of these you can raise your hand for? Are you wanting to reconnect with your authentic self, soul and purpose to become the woman you want to be? We want you to create aligned habits for more rest and less stress to live intentionally and take control of your daily life, to connect to other women who are on growth journeys, and rediscover your inherent worthiness and value so you can step into your power. Are you wanting to get clarity on life's decisions and your direction? Are you wanting to partner you with your mindset to achieve your goals and find the balance between your priorities and all of the competing roles you serve? If you're saying yes, then you're going to absolutely love our Success with Soul membership. This monthly membership includes monthly soul sessions with energy healers, spiritual guides, wellness gurus and other guest experts. Monthly mindset coaching calls cyclical living guidance, journaling prompts and taro and other resources and tools for living a soulful, whole life. Head on over to Kate kordsmeier.com/membership to join us today. That's Kate kordsmeier.com/membership.

Indira 19:35

So tell me about the seven resistance archetypes. This is all new to me. So I want to know all the things

Joanna 19:44

Yes, yeah, so before I even we even talk about the resistance archetypes. I usually find it helpful to talk about what resistance is and how it operates and functions because it's alive for all of us, no matter how much did not work we've done even for myself, I teach it and I still find new places. So, in the most simplest of terms, resistance is when we have a goal that we want to achieve. And it's an aligned goal, it's one that is really right for us. And it is the right timing and all of that. But somehow we resist taking the actions to get to that goal, you know, we can procrastinate, we can, you know, decide, like, Oh, this is just so overwhelming, and I just can't do it, we can find a ton of distractions. Netflix is a big, you know, one of those things, you know, we're cleaning the whole house before I start this, all of that. So that's, you know, that's what happens when we're in resistance. And we can be in resistance to a business goal to a health goal to a relationship goal, you know, to a hobby goal, health goal, whatever it is. So how does resistance work. And this is important before we even get to the archetypes. So almost always, the reason resistance arises is because it's a symptom of fear. So we might really, really, really want to accomplish a goal, let's say, to grow our business or to show up more on social media. Even though we really, really want to accomplish that goal. We may have a fear, like a fear of visibility, or a fear of being a fraud, or a fear that others if we show up in these ways, others are going to get angry at us, or a fear that others are going to criticize us, right, there's a lot of core fears that we can have. And the fears don't want to be looked at. Because if they're looked at, you know, you move on with the actions. And so something very sneaky happens. The resist, I always say this is the core fears kind of, I usually make a fist with my hand, like that's in the middle. And then the resistance behavior wraps itself around the fear as a distraction. Right. So instead of going deeper into looking, why I'm scared of being a fraud, or why I'm scared of being abandoned, or why I'm scared of visibility, we get caught up in oh my gosh, I suck. I'm such a procrastinator, or oh my gosh, this feels so overwhelming, or, Oh, the you know, the coach, that's helping me they're making it too confusing for me. And it distract the resistance distracts us from actually working with and making friends with the fear so that we can move forward. It's very sneaky and very sophisticated. But what I have found is if we can identify what some of our resistance archetypes are, then we in the moment when it shows up, we can No, it's not actually that I'm lazy right now. This is an indicator that there's something that I'm scared of let me go deeper with that. So that's what the resistance archetypes are, in a way.

Indira 23:18

And I know that you say that there's seven. Is this something that you came up with? Or this is?

Joanna 23:24

Yeah, it is. And actually, there's way more than seven. Okay. I usually I usually share four or seven of the most common ones. But everybody's got their own resistance expression, we can call it sometimes it's a combination of the two, sometimes it's something completely different. So but I like to share the ones that I have found are the most common.

Indira 23:50

And what are those,

Joanna 23:51

Okay, so the first one, this is one that I know the best is, is the victim archetype. Now, it doesn't mean that you are a victim, we're talking about a behavior, not a person or an identity, it and that's really important to understand not just for ourselves when we go into resistance, but when we are supporting a client and resistance because the moment I start to see my client as a victim, then I don't see them as full and complete anymore, then I'm there to fix them. Then those energetics that we were talking about earlier are off. This is just a part of the client or a part of ourselves, that shows up when we when our defenses are up. When our triggers are up. It's a way that we've adapted in order to not feel the fear. So the first one is the victim archetype. And when you go into the victim archetype, it is as if everybody and everything is against you. You are completely helpless against your circumstances. You can't get your You're golden, because this thing happened to you and that person did that thing to you. And you feel in those moments as if you've lost your personal power to move forward, like something is just against you. I call these resistance archetypes archetypes because it's almost as if we step into a foreign energy, we get caught in this vortex of energy that we believe when we're in the resistance. So when you're in the victim resistance archetype, even though you're normally an empowered person, in those moments, it feels like you have no personal power whatsoever to be able to move forward. So that's the victim. Another really common one is the judge, the judges defense mechanism is to get really critical and judgmental, either of themselves or of others or have the coach. So when you're coaching, if your client steps into the judge, one way that it could look like is, you know, what, coach, that's just a terrible strategy that we're working on, you're really not helping me at all. Now, we all I always say we always want to use our listening filters, because it might not be an aligned strategy for the client. Right? That's always the case. But when it's not that, it's because the client is so scared to take those actions that you've been strategizing on together, that they get judgmental, a really common one in the coaching industry, I see is when a coach is ready to raise their rates, they get all judgy about other people's rates, she charges too much. That's so astronomical, I would never charge that much. Oftentimes, it's because there is this fear, this core fear that the judgment is then hiding around what's gonna happen if I raise my rates, or whatever it is.

Indira 26:54

I could totally see that coming up for coaches. Absolutely.

Joanna 26:58

Yeah, yeah. So that's the judge. Another really common one is the procrastinator, say too much about that one, but the procrastinator will just find anything else to do like it becomes so urgent to wash the dishes or to clean out the email inbox, when really there's a big tap, you know, write the newsletter instead, or whatever it is. So that's the procrastinator, similar to the procrastinator, but a little different is the flake. So the flake when we see the flake in a client, it's a client who's normally very responsible, but they all of a sudden show up late for a session or they forget that there is a session or they forget that there was homework that they said they were going to do since the last session. It's like, when they are confronted with their fear, they just go into this like strange flakiness. That is not who they are. But it helps them not take those steps.

Indira 28:05

I can kind of see that when to I feel like all of these could. I mean, could we step into all these archetypes at different points?

Joanna 28:14

Absolutely. So, you know, we usually have our our most preferred archetype, but I certainly have, you know, some of the victim and some of the judge and some of the others, so we can definitely step into more than one.

Kate Kordsmeier 28:34

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Indira 29:23

Tell me about the needy one.

Joanna 29:25

Yeah, so the needy one. This will show up in a client who is normally very self sufficient. It's not that they don't need any support. Obviously, all human beings need support. That's why they've hired us, but it's a person who is normally self sufficient. But when they go into fear around taking actions, they all of a sudden maybe they start sending us you know 10 emails in a row or very, very lengthy emails. They need us to hold their hand in ways that don't make sense for who they are. They feel like they need a crutch. Like they just can't do it on their own. They get very needy. Yeah.

Indira 30:11

And the jokester, I'm just going to take a stab and assume that that's just somebody who like likes to make a joke out of the situation to kind of deflect.

Joanna 30:24

Absolutely, absolutely. So, exactly. It's like they start to, you know, make things funny, they make jokes, instead of being with the fear that comes up in that moment, or the shadow that comes up in that moment, or the confronting thing. In that moment. You'll see the jokester and one on one. And then a lot of times in groups, the jokester will kind of like make a joke, right, in a very serious moment, in a group where something big has just come up.

Indira 30:56

Yeah, I can see that. Tell me about the spiritual one,

Joanna 30:59

The spiritual one is one of the sneakiest. Because, you know, for those of us that are spiritual, and I am there, you know, and all of these have all these archetypes have their highest expression, right, and then they're kind of not so helpful, lower expression. So the spiritual one is sneaky, because for those of us that are spiritual, you know, there's so much beauty in it. But it's when someone inadvertently is using their spirituality or spiritual concepts to avoid the fear. So as an example, let's say a deep shadow comes up. So let's say a feeling of jealousy comes up, that's important that we want to work on with our client, because that jealousy is standing in their way. The spiritual one might say, You know what, I'm all love and light. Like, I don't like to look at things like jealousy, that's not really part of my existence. So I'm not gonna look at

Indira 31:56

Is that spiritual bypassing?

Joanna 31:58

Exactly. Spiritual bypassing.

Indira 32:00

Yeah. Hmm. And then you have the teacher.

Joanna 32:05

Yeah, so the teacher usually comes up in groups, the teachers, the one where you're leading a group. And now whenever I lead groups, I love like, everybody shares wisdom, that's an essential part of I think group facilitation, I'm not the one on the pedestal as the leader or the teacher, everybody contributes. But what I'm talking about with the teacher is the one in the group who always tries, who give others advice, or one off the leader, or show how smart they are, or really tell others what in the group what they think they should do, or what they think is going on with them. It is a way again, of deflecting fear, either because a discomfort is coming up for them, or I'm looking at themselves, and what advice do they want to give themselves? Or what do they want to see inside of themselves, or it deflects this fear of I don't feel smart enough in this group, and I need to prove myself in some way.

Indira 33:12

And it's very interesting. And as you went through each one, I'm able to like, identify at different points, like every single one, I will say, my go to is the judge. And it's usually of myself, not of others, I can have so much grace and compassion and empathy for others. And somehow it you know, it's more work and challenging to give that to myself. I'm an astrologer. And I say that's the Virgo in me, where it's like the critical voice just living inside my head.

Joanna 33:47

You're talking to a fellow Virgo. So I know. I'm kidding. I know exactly. It's so easy to give to others what we give to ourselves.

Indira 33:59

Yeah, I'm working on that. I just recently read a book called How to Talk to yourself like a Buddhist, by Cynthia Kane. And it's been phenomenal. I will say, so you see that you can harvest the gold in each archetype. I want to harvest the gold. Yeah. How did we do that?

Joanna 33:59

Yeah, such a great question. So here's the thing is that there's nothing whenever we step into a part of ourselves or an energy, there's nothing inherently bad about that part, or that energy. It's just about how we use it. And there's a lot of talk in the transformational industry about getting rid of fears or getting rid of these, you know, unsavory parts of ourselves, et cetera. And actually, what I always propose is the opposite of that is we don't want to get rid of any of these parts. observe ourselves, then they just go into shadow where they fester. Every part of ourselves is an essential part of who we are. It's just that when we're not friends with them and aligned ways they command us those parts command us in not so great ways, versus us commanding that. So the more that we can actually honor and love and respect all of the parts of ourselves, including our resistance archetypes, the more that we can approach them with compassion, with curiosity, with trying to understand why they're there, how they're trying to serve us what they're trying to do for us what they need from us, then we get to pull the, you know, that, like I said, like the gold out of them, right. So maybe, for example, it's different for everybody. But maybe, for example, inside of the procrastinator is one who knows how to be spacious, one who knows how to take space for oneself instead of constantly overworking. Right? If we can harness that part of the procrastinator, so much as possible. Maybe for some people, I know this is true for me, the golden side of my particular victim is the gift of drama. And that's how I'm able to evoke drama in my groups, and you know, kind of like, have fun in certain moments, like, create drama for good, right. But when I'm not harnessing it, the victim is harnessing me with drama, that is not very helpful. Maybe inside of the judge archetype. I think this is true, I think for a lot of people that I've worked with, but gold is the skill of discernment, right? To actually know this is a good decision. That's not a good decision. This is someone I want to hang out with. That's actually not someone I want to hang out with, there is so much gold, and we know that we've hit on the gold versus the resistance archetype. When it doesn't feel like a triggering energy, like when we make that discerning decision where it's like, more of a wisdom and a matter of fact, versus we're being pulled into that vortex of energy, of judgment.

Indira 37:30

And love that there's so many things that you said, I love that you said coming from a place of curiosity. Oftentimes, we come from a place of judgment, instead of you know, just being curious, observing, asking questions, really stepping into self coaching, really, isn't it what it is, at the end of the day, we're just coaching ourselves, so. So tell me about the six step somatic process to navigate resistance?

Joanna 38:02

Yeah, so I'll share it quickly. There's obviously a lot to each step. But so the first step always goes back to those energetics that I was talking about, like you cannot do anything, you cannot help your clients with this. If as a practitioner, you are feeling again, like you're not good enough, like they're not good enough. Also, if you are scared or worried about your clients resistance archetype, if you feel as a practitioner, that something has gone wrong, that it's because you're a bad coach or practitioner, that this resistance has come up, you know, if you don't know that it is just a normal, natural byproduct of fear, then energetics are going to be off. So that's step one is really align the energetics come from a place of love and compassion, and honoring and curiosity for yourself, for your client.

Indira 39:07

I love that.

Joanna 39:08

Yeah, it's just everything flows from there. The next step is creating awareness. So you want to have skills and I teach my students for each of the archetypes, there's a little bit of a different way that you want to create awareness for that archetype. And you want to be skilled at it because or else the archetype will go, the client will go into shame, right? So you don't want to just create, for example, awareness on the victim archetype by saying like, I think you're acting like a victim to your client, that's not a good way to support a client to be aware that something is happening for them. You want to be able to use the right reflections the right words or ask the right questions, so that a client is able to receive the Oh airness that they're actually not in their highest self, they're not in their full power, but they're kind of in a defense mechanism. Because you want to create awareness, that's step two, as you create the awareness, you also want to normalize, normalizing in all of coaching, but particularly when you're working with resistance is vital. So normalizing, what it essentially means is letting your client know that there's nothing wrong about them or about the process or this doesn't mean they don't have the ability to create what they want, there's just not it is normal to go into resistance. I heard recently Brene Brown say that the opposite of shaming is normalizing. And I just love that it's so important. Normalizing also, you know, sometimes means letting your client know that that happens to you, whatever it is, so we want to normalize. From there, you know, and we're using our coaching skills on along the way, seeing what's resonating, you know, all of those pieces. But from there, once we've normalized, then the way I like to describe it is once we create awareness and normalize, we're already starting to poke holes into the resistance archetype, it can start to soften a little bit, it doesn't have to defend the fear so much. Because it's being seen, it's being named, it's being loved. It doesn't have to so strongly, like do the job that it's been doing. So from there, you have some choices, but usually the next step is to cognitively first, support your client to see where else does this resistance archetype show up for them, and how has it impacted them. And what has the history of this pattern been creating awareness on that history on that pattern on where it comes from maybe who modeled it for them, where they learned it, it provides so much valuable information that allows even if you were to end the process right there and not do the last two steps, just with that information alone, a client could go back into their lives and start to notice when they step into the resistance archetype, and start to call themselves out because of it, because they've got all of this beautiful awareness. Now, step five, is the actual somatic process, which, you know, it takes me a while to train practitioners, I won't go into all of the pieces, but we don't only what I'll say is we don't only want to work, cognitively with resistances, or fears or shadows. Yes, so much happens in the mind. But we feel our fears and our body, they're connected to our nervous systems, we hold different resistances and fears and shadows in our bodies. So we want to work not just cognitively but also somatically. For a client to what I always like to say is what a big piece of what the technique is about, is to get regulated with fears that have previously caused this regulation, to get regulated in our bodies with fears that generally like trigger us, put us into fight or flight Baner, freeze, etc. So we're supporting a client to connect with the resistance and connect with the fear in ways where they can really not get rid of the fear or the resistance but hold it alongside with their grounded selves, and bodies. And then the last step after all that work is to strategize. Okay, what do you want to do next? What's a different action you want to take? How do you want to move?

Indira 44:02

Oh, my goodness, I love it. I love it. Kate and myself both practice EFT as well. So I 100% know that we hold our emotions in our bodies. And it's just as equally important as working with the mind to let go and release and transmute that. So thank you for that. That is amazing. Is there something that I didn't ask that you would want our listeners to know?

Joanna 44:36

I don't think so. I feel like we covered so much. I mean, I think the one thing is I know for a lot of practitioners, it can sometimes feel scary to go to these places and address these things with clients. It's so much easier to just be like, Oh, they're just in judgment or that you know, whatever the archetype is and to kind of just bypass it or, you know, just kind of try to push them into action. And I just want to Yeah, I think just the piece that I want to say is, whenever we bypass the resistance archetypes or just try to push the client into action, or decide, oh, this client isn't coachable, that's another thing that can happen, oh, this client just isn't coachable. You know, that's never going to lead to what we want and what we want for our clients and what they want for themselves. It'll just lead to client frustration, or to us losing clients, or to us not feeling good about the work we're doing. So be willing to do the courageous work of supporting clients with their resistance archetypes.

Indira 45:41

Yeah, it seems like it's also a lot of internal work.

Joanna 45:45

It is, yes,

Indira 45:47

This has been amazing. I've learned so much. So I'm excited for our listeners, as they go through all this as well, we have come to the lightning round. So this is the part of the interview where I'm just going to quickly ask you some questions and whatever comes up, that is the correct answer. So the first thing is, what's your favorite way to make time for self care while running your own business?

Joanna 46:15

I love that question. I am a big journaler. And I do ritual. So I've got like my little altar set in the side of my bedroom, and I make time to do all the work we're talking about today, do my journaling, pull my cards, do my rituals. That's what kind of keeps me in check and makes me feel spacious.

Indira 46:35

I love that I do that as well. I love that. What is one tool or strategy that you use to help with time management

Joanna 46:43

Blueprinting, I call it blueprinting. So the beginning of every month, and I do paper and pen, I don't do it on the computer, I write my big goals for the month. And then after that, I write out all of the action steps I need to take to achieve those goals. This is my Virgo, and then I write the date. I look at my calendar for the month and I write what date am I going to take each of those action steps and that way? Every week, I know exactly my action steps for the week, every morning when I wake up, I don't have to be overwhelmed, or how am I going to get things done? I know what the actions are for the day. And I just work the blueprint

Indira 47:20

I love that. I think this is I mean, we do something similar, but I think I've never heard it referred to as blueprint before. What's the most powerful business mindset or entrepreneurial book that you've ever read? This is the one that you reference over and over again, and it's made the biggest difference in your life?

Joanna 47:40

Oh gosh, that's a hard question. pressure in the moment, I may have to skip it because my Peri menopausal brain is not able to answer that. Sure. Sure.

Indira 47:53

Well, I know just from the interview that you're Brene Brown fanwe are as well, the team is as well. So let's talk about mindset. What's your favorite quote or mantra or affirmation when things get tough and you feel like giving up?

Joanna 48:13

I mean, I go back to I know, I didn't make this quota. But I've been using it for years, I really go back to the energy follows energy. It's true not just with clients, but with myself. So when I'm stuck or in resistance, I asked myself, what's the energy that I want to be showing up with right now? Because I know that's going to lead my actions.

Indira 48:35

I love that I think I'm going to borrow that from you. And then finally, you're in the Success with Soul podcast. So what does Success with Soul mean to you?

Joanna 48:46

I love that. To me, it's not about achieving the biggest goals or creating empires, if that's not what's aligned for me, but it's about achieving the goals that feel right for me in any given moment. That helped me feel like I am not only on purpose and making impact, but also giving myself the time and the space to enjoy all of it. I love that.

Indira 49:16

And finally, where can our audience connect with you and find you?

Joanna 49:21

Yeah, so you can connect with me. I am on Instagram there. Not a lot. But at Joanna Lindenbaum, and on Facebook, and my website is applieddepthinstitute.com.

Indira 49:37

Great. It has been a pleasure to have you on the podcast. I personally have learned so much. And I appreciate you. Thank you so much.

Joanna 49:49

Thanks so much for having me. I've loved this conversation.

Indira 49:52

Have a great day, Joanna, you too.

Kate Kordsmeier 49:58

I hope you've been inspired Buy this episode and feel ready to take action on your dreams and goals. If so, please hit subscribe. This makes it possible for me to continue to provide free helpful content and bring you amazing guests. Just go to iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe so that you know when we released a new episode, and you never miss a thing. Worse, we often put timely opportunities in our shows, so if you don't subscribe, you might miss something valuable

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