063: Tips to Simplify + Streamline Processes in Your Business with Ashley Gartland

Kate Kordsmeier 0:00

Welcome back to the Success with Soul podcast. I'm your host Kate Kordsmeier. And today we have Ashley gartland. In the house, Ashley is a small business mentor and coach. She helps service based business owners and online entrepreneurs simplify and streamline their business so they can scale sustainably and build a business that makes the life they desire possible. So she is a woman after my own heart. She is the host of the better than big podcast, which is one of the best names I've ever heard. And she shares all kinds of stories and strategies and solutions to help small business owners run their business with more ease and intention. And Ashley actually is walking the talk. She runs her six figure business in just 25 hours a week leaving her plenty of time to enjoy the good stuff in life like trail runs good books and adventures with her family. I'm so excited to share this interview with Ashley with y'all especially because she and I have such similar paths. We both started out as freelance journalists are now coaches. And we're talking about a lot of things that have come up in both of our career trajectories over the years and things that I think a lot of y'all will be able to relate to as well. One of the biggest things that we spoke on is the sense of urgency that we all seem to have with our businesses this it has to happen now we have to reach this next step this next level this next milestone today, and everything feels like an emergency. So if you can relate to that, I think you're gonna get a lot out of this episode. Likewise, if you sometimes feel like you are trying to grow for growth's sake, this episode is for you. So without further ado, let's get into it. You're listening to the Success with Soul podcast with Kate Kordsmeier ex journalists turned CEO of a multi six figure blog in online business. But it wasn't that long ago that Kate was a struggling entrepreneur who lacked confidence, clarity, and let's be honest money. But all those failures, experiments and lessons learned helped Kate create a thriving business that impacts 1000s and brings freedom, flexibility and fulfillment to her life. If you're ready to do the same and make something happen with holistic, soulful, step by step strategies from Kate and other experts, you're in the right place. here's your host, writer, educator, Mom, recovering perfectionist, bookworm, and sushi connoisseur, Kate Kordsmeier. Hey, Ashley, welcome to Success with Soul.

Ashley Gartland 2:28

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited for this conversation.

Kate Kordsmeier 2:32

I know me too. So we have kind of an interesting history. And I was just saying before I hit record now to be totally redundant to you. But new to the listeners that we met, I guess now a little over a year ago, maybe. And we were just saying that I was pregnant with my daughter at the time. And she's now 10 months old. So somewhere in that in that window. And since then, I have been forwarding your emails to my team all the time. Like, I feel like there was there was definitely a period where I must have you were just like hitting everything I needed to hear. And I think every week I was like, okay, team, listen to the what Ashley had to say about this, you got to hear this. This is so smart. So when we were thinking of who do we want to have on the show, Mara, and my team's like, I'm pretty sure you need to ask Ashley on the show. You're always warning her emails. So here we are. Yeah. And so excited to be talking about all those things that you recording stuff about?

Ashley Gartland 3:21

Yes, me too.

Kate Kordsmeier 3:22

Me too. So tell everybody who's listening a little bit about who you are and some of your story.

Ashley Gartland 3:28

Yeah. So I got my start in business right out of college, I started like you as a journalist and a freelance journalist. And I wrote about food and beverage and wrote some cookbooks. And then there became this point where I wanted to pivot in a pretty big way in my business, I wanted to make an impact. And that sounds so cheesy to me now. But I really was longing for working more with people and helping them through challenges. And that's when I discovered coaching, I didn't actually know it existed. I was in this insular bubble in the freelance writing world. And it wasn't something people really talked about or used. And so when I discovered coaching, like yes, that's what I want to do. And that's actually what I'm already doing with some people, helping them get their businesses set up helping them figure out how to do what I do. And so I started to make this shift then, and that was about six, six and a half years ago, seven years ago now, and made the shift into coaching. And it's been amazing and really found that my sweet spot is helping people create a business with this life first approach, which is the whole reason I got into entrepreneurship in the first place myself was to create a business that allowed me to, you know, live the life I wanted. And so I've really helped people learn how to build simple, streamlined businesses that make that lifestyle and life they want possible and make it possible to prioritize the things that are most important to them. And I've been doing that for the last six years and it's been a blast.

Kate Kordsmeier 4:41

I love it so much. We have so much in common and I love the life first approach. That's such a good way to phrase it. Because I think same that's you know why I started out as a freelancer. Same thing was just like, I can't live my life in a cubicle. I will die here and it's just so soul sucking. And that's not I say that all corporate jobs are I'm sure there are some fantastic corporate jobs out there. But I just really wanted to create something that worked for me and my lifestyle and what I was doing. And this was, you know, even before I had kids, but it became much more necessary once I did have a family and was like, Oh, my gosh, I don't know how I don't know how any woman is doing this going to an office, which, you know, granted, maybe during COVID, we're not. But it's even harder with virtual schooling. It's like, but how are people going into an office all day and having a family? I don't know how they're getting everything that needs to get done, done.

Ashley Gartland 5:34

Yeah. 100%. And this year has so solidified that for me when I'm seeing a lot of people kind of scramble and have a lot of challenges around the pandemic. And I'm like, it's been hard for sure. But because I've designed the business to survive, I didn't have to move that many things around like, there were challenges and some strain. But overall, it actually worked pretty well. And I was kind of shocked to watch it all play out. I certainly didn't design my business to survive a pandemic. But it was nice. It actually afforded me that.

Kate Kordsmeier 6:01

Right, for sure. Yeah. And it's interesting, too, I'm curious to talk a little bit about this, like freelance versus coaching setup to obviously something I can relate to. And it's one of the things that comes to mind for me is, when I was a freelancer, for a while for many years, I thought, Oh, no, I'm self employed. I have my own business. I'm the boss. And then once I, you know, a few years passed, and then it was like, yeah, this isn't really feeling so much like that anymore. And then once I truly was my own boss, I can now look back and go, Oh, no, you just had dozens of different bosses like I still have so many people I was having to report to. And it was very much this time for dollars trade that, you know, people are always talking about now. But when I had my first child and went on maternity leave, I kept thinking, I remember when I was freelance everybody saying, Oh, this will be so great when you have kids, because you don't have to go into an office wherever. But if I took a maternity leave, I would have made $0. Like, if I was not working, there was going to be no money coming in. And then by that time, I actually had my blog up and running. And for my first pregnancy, I was able to take a maternity leave and made like over $65,000, just from having my blog, and I didn't do anything. And that was one of the first times that I was like, this was the right thing for me to do. Like this was the right choice. So I'm curious to hear more about your experience with that as well.

Ashley Gartland 7:25

Yeah, I think you know, same as what you're seeing when I was in it, like I recognize that I was kind of the other people were in control, right? Like the editors, they were making the decisions, I felt like I had a little bit of control what I said, I said no to and how I designed, you know, my work days, but I didn't have as much control over revenue or what I was doing what what I could like make possible for me. And that definitely shifted when I got into coaching. And I think that was one of the pieces like that caused me to make the transition. Sure, it was like this piece where I wanted to make the impact. And I wanted to work with people in a way different way that I was. But also I was really tired of editors controlling my revenue and editors controlling you know, when things needed to be in, and I wanted that control back. And so moving into coaching, I got that I got to say, what I was working on when I was at what my revenue was gonna look like, like I was in control of creating that. And that felt really good.

Kate Kordsmeier 8:15

Yeah, the control pieces. I mean, huge for me, too. And I got one of the things that really frustrated me and anybody listening who's written for anyone else before knows that sometimes what you turn in is not what gets published. And sometimes it was just personally where you know, you're like, Oh, I liked the way I said it better. But more often it was that the source was misquoted, but I didn't do it, they edit it. And then the source comes to you and complains or, you know, like something like that happens, where it's just like, ah, I just I hate not being the one who has the final say.

Ashley Gartland 8:50

Yeah, I think for me, like, I saw a little bit of that going on. And that was certainly frustrating. But the bigger thing was like the last minute requests, like can you just completely rewrite this piece? Or can you just turn this around? You know, it's Friday afternoon. And I'd like it by 5pm. And like you said, once I became a mom that definitely was taking away from my life in a way that I didn't like, like, if I had had something planned with my family that afternoon, I didn't want to have to say, No, I can no longer be available for you. I want to be able to say like, yes, I'm going to honor my boundaries, and that that position allowed me to do that. So that was definitely part of the motivation for change.

Kate Kordsmeier 9:22

Yeah. So what was the shift like for you from going from freelance to coaching and what did you start coaching about? And is that still what you coach on? Or how has that evolved?

Ashley Gartland 9:32

Yeah, it was Rocky. Want to be so transparent there? And I think that first year of coaching for so many people like I went and got a coaching certification and I went through the course with or the program with, like, 26 other people, and almost everybody struggled to figure out what is it that's my thing, what is it that I want to coach on? And I actually I think because this season of life that I was in, and because so many people were coming to me talking about motherhood, you know, all my friends were asking how are you doing and how are you balancing and how are you can't work. And so I thought that my niece was going to be helping moms, you know, make time and space for what was most important to them, like take care of themselves. And I did that for like, I don't like a year and a half or so. And it was working, okay. But I wasn't totally lit up about it. And it actually took being in a mastermind group where my sister who's also a business owner was in the group, and she looked at me and she's like, I just don't get it. Like, why are you coaching moms? When you live and breathe business and have your entire life like, what are you doing? I was like, Oh, dear God, now I'm gonna have to change everything. That wasn't really helpful. And what I can see now is that those things that I was doing with the moms are still relevant today, like helping people learn to prioritize what's most important to them and honor their boundaries and learn to say no, like, those are things that come up in the coaching I do with my business owners, too. It's just the lens we're doing things through. And the results we're driving are very different. We, you know, we're focused on business and growth and doing it in a sustainable way, versus you and your life as a mom. Yeah,

Kate Kordsmeier 10:56

totally. Now, I'm curious to your thoughts on kind of this coaching paradigm that comes up a lot. There's a few that I hear, but one is like, do you feel like you should not coach on something until you have done it yourself?

Ashley Gartland 11:10

I think I think it's really helpful. I would say, you know, I have a lot of clients who are coaches, a lot of peers who are coaches. And I feel like the people who are most successful have been through it, you know, they really deeply understand what it's like, I'm sure, like, you can coach and learn to coach on things you haven't been through. But it's super valuable when you have for your clients. But also for you to like, the reason I can write copy that gets such responses from people is because I've been there or I'm in it right now. And so I can really relate. And so I think that that's, for me, that's really helpful. And that's always my recommendation is to coach on something you've been through and known versus something you really don't know much about.

Kate Kordsmeier 11:45

Right? What about something that you're currently struggling with?

Ashley Gartland 11:49

I think it's really good to be a little removed from it. Like you can be kind of on the other side of it, but I wouldn't coach on how to heal, you're deep in the middle of it. You know, like I think about Bernie Brown, how she's share your scars, not your wounds. Right. When you're in the messy middle. I think it's good to get through it. And then coach on it.

Kate Kordsmeier 12:07

Yeah, for sure. I love that so much. It's something that I feel like, you know, I don't I'm not trying to call out any, any coaches or anything like that. But it's something that I think people who are interested in coaching and sometimes say like, well, I don't really know what what is my thing? Like you said that everyone's kind of trying to figure that out. And sometimes it's hard. If it's like, well, this thing is the thing that I'm currently trying to do. And I do I see a lot of coaches out there who like, I'll know, well, you don't have a profitable business yet. But you're coaching people how to create a business? And is there some kind of ethical morality thing happening there? Or is it possible? Like maybe it is possible to be a fantastic coach for something that you've never been through? I think, like it reminds me of male OBS or something where it's like, yeah, I'm sure there are great male OBS out there. But I personally was always like, why would I go to a male, they have no idea what the experience of being pregnant is like. So maybe it's just a personal preference thing,

Ashley Gartland 13:02

too? I think so. But I do think that's such a beautiful parallel, where it's like, it's great to receive support from someone who's been there, because they can relate and they can really help you through it in a way that someone who hasn't can't Yeah,

Kate Kordsmeier 13:13

yeah. So for people listening who are thinking like, well, I would like to be a coach, or maybe I am a coach right now. But I haven't I'm not on the other side, I am still sharing my wounds, or I am still kind of trying to figure it out, too. Or even just starting, I don't know, I think there's this kind of like chicken or the egg syndrome that happens then where you go like, well, I want to coach on this, but I haven't done it yet. But if I wait to do it, and wait to start coaching until I do it, then like the cycle gets interrupted.

Ashley Gartland 13:42

Yeah, I think it's really helpful to get rooted at what you do know. So you know, when I was first starting coaching, I didn't have a six figure business like that I was wasn't that wasn't my claim. But what I could promise people was that I could help them create a business that made the things they wanted in their life possible, I could help them lean into simplicity, I could help them focus on what was most important. And I could help them define the things that they wanted to make space for in their life and design a business that made that possible. Learning how to get people to grow. Like that took me a little bit of time. So I really leaned into what I knew deeply and could promise people and that was my value proposition first. Now, you know, I can talk about I can help you grow sustainably too. But that wasn't my value proposition at first. So I think there's a little bit of both and they're going on. Gotcha. Okay.

Kate Kordsmeier 14:25

super helpful. So you started a podcast? I'm not sure when you have to fact check me here. I think last year, yes. Last fall. Last fall. Okay. called better than big, which is such a good name. I love it so much. Tell us about like, what is creating a business that's better than big? What does that mean?

Ashley Gartland 14:44

Yeah. So it's, it's a business that's simple, and it's streamlined, and it's super intentional. And it's really focused on doing less better, right. So instead of doing more having tons of services and tons of marketing activities, and tons of you know, things going on back in the earth, it's it's really really streamlined. And again, it's that vehicle, right, that makes your lifestyle possible. So that's how I think of business. I don't think of it as just this own thing. I think of it as the thing that makes the life you want possible. And then the other thing, I think it's important to say what's better than bad because sometimes people hear that and they think, oh, you're anti growth, you just want to help people build lifestyle business. And I'm like, No, it's not that. It's about how you get to the growth. So I want my clients getting to the growth with intention and ease, not hustle and overwhelm. And I want them getting getting there without sacrificing the things that are most important to them. And so that can look different, right? Like we might extend the timelines on their goals, we may focus on doing less than they think they should be doing. And that's how they get to where they want to go in a way that's again, intentional needful, not focused on the hustle and overwhelm.

Kate Kordsmeier 15:47

Yeah, for sure. Okay, so two things that came up for me there. One is this idea of doing less, which is definitely something that I also strive to do in my own business, and then teach my students and clients as well. What does doing last look like for you? And most of your clients? If they're if there's like, Are there any common denominators of like, how do you actually do

Ashley Gartland 16:08

less? Yeah, so one of the things I love with my clients, and actually myself, too, like anyone who's a creative entrepreneur, right, is that you're an idea, person. And so and you're also constantly getting consuming lots of ideas from other people, you know, you're listening to podcasts, or reading books. And so there's always these sparks going off. And what you have to do is decide what's most important. And so with my clients, a lot of the time, we're taking this big list of ideas that they have, or all these things they want to do in their business, or all these services they want to launch. And we're simplifying them. So we're getting them down to a couple of signature services, because I work with a lot of service providers, we're looking at all the marketing things they could do. And we're asking, What if you just did two and you did them incredibly well? And what would that do for your business? We're looking at even like the features of their services, and instead of packing them so full, we're asking what's essential here and focusing on that. So it's really just continuing to edit and refine, and get the business to a much simpler, streamlined place. And that's what allows them to do less and live more. Yeah,

Kate Kordsmeier 17:06

I know, even one of my mentors who has a seven figure business, and I was in her mastermind last year, and she was saying that, you know, she used to have like 39 offers one day, they were looking at everything, and she's like 39 offers and then they they scaled it down to three, I think was their final number and revenue grill. And it's like it seems counterintuitive, but I think it is like the more focused you are, then the more what's what's like the way to say it. I feel like there's an eloquent way to I'm trying to say but like you get that focus and then the results skyrocket.

Ashley Gartland 17:41

Yeah, it's so backwards. It's the same thing with Nietzschean, right, we think if we niche down to a specific audience that we can't possibly have that abundance, and same thing, like I love that with services, I have so many I do service intensives with people and so, so often people come in, they're like I have 10 services, or I have three services. And they're six tiers under each one. And I'm like, if I'm your buyer, I'm so confused already just looking at stuff. I don't know what these things are where I fit in. If we get them down to two or three signature services that are really tight, and there's a very clear result attached to them. Their revenue skyrockets, like literally within the next couple months. Yeah,

Kate Kordsmeier 18:15

it's so crazy how that happens. And I mean, even when you're not talking about specific services that you sell, or offers that you have, like, I can remember being really overwhelmed when all I was doing was trying to grow my blog Root + Revel, which I don't mean, like all I was doing, it was more than a full time job. But because I was trying to do so many different things, Okay, I gotta do content. And I got to be on Pinterest, and they got to be on Instagram, and I need to do podcasts. And maybe I should add a course. And maybe I should, you know, like, there were so many things. And I remember at the end of 20, I think was at the end of 2016. Like, whatever, it doesn't matter what the timeline was, at the end of one of the years, I said, You know, I think for the next six months, all I'm going to do is focus on creating content, I'm not going to do any of these other things like, yes, they might be important, but I'm just gonna dial this one thing and really master that and provide as much value as possible. And then once that's kind of dialed in, then I'll go on to the next thing. And wouldn't you know, in like two months, my income had like, quadrupled. And I was doing, like, one 100 of the things I was doing before.

Ashley Gartland 19:19

Yeah, and I bet you felt way better to write. And then I had such a good example. And the most important thing that you just said that I want to call out is like that, you focus on one thing, but you didn't tell yourself, you couldn't have all the other things you just said not right now. And I think that's something that I have to do as the voice of reason for my clients a lot is to say, I know you want to do those 12 different things. But if we do that, you're going to be spread really, really thin and you're probably going to be kind of throwing spaghetti at the wall not a lot of stuffs gonna be effective here. If we get this one thing running like a well oiled machine and we do it so well and get results from it. Then you can layer on the next thing and then the next. And that I think is the hardest lesson in entrepreneurship is that restraint with our own ideas and the things that We could do, but it's so works when you can lead into it.

Kate Kordsmeier 20:03

Yeah, it's like we need boundaries for other people. And we need to learn how to say no, but mostly we need those for ourselves.

Ashley Gartland 20:10

Yeah, I'm recording a new audio course. And that's one of the lessons is like having boundaries with ourselves because that is where we are leakiest. And that's where slippery slope is. And if you can kind of control that a little bit more, you can see such good results, and you can be working less and enjoying life more.

Kate Kordsmeier 20:32

Hey, hey, you

want me to let you in on my secret to how I work with less stress, less effort, less pushing, and more ease, flow and joy? Here it is. And it has truly transformed my health and happiness and skyrocketed my business results. For the past few years, I've been embracing cyclical living. What's that you ask? It's actually based on the fact that a woman's body follows a 28 day cycle, give or take, we're throughout the month, our energy levels rise and fall, our nutritional needs change. And even our brains focus on different things as our hormones fluctuate. All of this happens to magically mirror the phases of the moon, because Mother Nature is one smart cookie. But our world is based around a consistent 24 hour a day seven day a week cycle. Why? Because this is how men or testosterone dominant people's biological clocks operate, aka the patriarchy. Trying to work in plan with a structure just doesn't work for women or estrogen dominant people. So how can we bring more feminine energy into our businesses and make it work for us? Imagine how your life would change if you could work with your body and its cycles, not against it. That's why I created my mindful planning printables to help you tune into your body hone in on the work you truly love. prioritize your most pressing tasks, and let the rest go. liberation is just around the corner with this revolutionary approach. So go to successwithsoul.co/mindful to get your printable planner today. Inside you'll find my four season cycle key reference guide that will help you understand all of these things that I'm talking about. And there's pages for self care, morning rituals, there's journal prompts, there's worksheets, there's my all time favorite productivity tool that I use every single day, there's reflection and review planner so that you can figure out what's working, what needs to get the boot in the next season of life, and weekly, monthly, quarterly and annual planning sheets to get you into alignment and unlocking new levels of productivity. If you're ready, go to successwithsoul.co/mindful today to get your coffee and get started learning how to flow with your life instead of against it. Okay, the second thing you said a few minutes ago was about better than big. And people think it means like you're anti growth. So I wanted to dig into that a little bit and talk about I think a lot of us can get stuck in this trap of growth for growth's sake, and like, why do we even want to grow? And sometimes it's just like, we want to grow to say that we grow or we want to grow, because once we grow, then I could afford to hire this person. But maybe you don't even need that person. What if you just stayed where you were? But I know you were saying that? No, it's not that you're anti growth. So I kind of want to talk about that. And what's coming up for me is thinking about think his name's Paul Jarvis, who did company of one. And he is kind of anti growth, I think, and maybe I haven't read the books. And maybe I'm doing the same thing. And I'm thinking it means one thing when it means another. But I'm curious, you're kind of how what better than big fits into all that.

Ashley Gartland 23:42

Yeah, I mean, Paul Jarvis is such a good person to call out because his philosophy is very similar. Like, I think, I don't know where he's at with his business. But I feel like in the book, he talks about, like, he has a 250k a year business. And he's decided that that's perfect for him. Because it allows him to do work he loves it allows him to run a really simple, streamlined business and allows him to spend lots of time outdoors, which is what like, those are all the things that success looks like to him. So I think for me, like one of the things I like to do with clients is really get that picture painted for them, like what is success for them, so that then the metrics they're going after, and the lifestyle they want, like, it's it's theirs, right? It's not somebody else's. So that means defining what you want your revenue to be like, what you want it to make possible for you. It means defining how many hours you want to work, and what a business that would fit within those hours would look like. And it means defining what you want it to make possible. And then you can start to make decisions from there about how you want to grow. And again, like I like to encourage my clients to not rush to get there. Like I have a client who you know, shared a couple of years ago that she wanted to have a million dollar a year business and she has all the makings of a million dollar a year business. But she's like, I'm not in a rush to get there. Like if it takes me five years to get there. She's totally cool with it. Because she knows that going slowly through her business and those growth phases is going to be exactly what she needs to do to get there without sacrificing time with her family. Her health, like all the things that are important to her, yeah,

Kate Kordsmeier 25:03

that's I feel like that's where I've gotten in just this last maybe month or two, where I've had the goal to be a seven figure business, I made that my goal in 2020. And I didn't hit it, and that's okay. And then it was again, now is my goal for 2021. And I felt like for a while it just like, it was all I could think about, I gotta make $1,000,000.07 figure business like, this is what I want, this is what I want, this is what I want. And then I just kind of stepped back recently, and was like, Yeah, I still want it. But like, what if it just happens when it happens? And I don't need the income right now to cover my living expenses. Like, I don't need to grow my team at this exact moment, like we're operating well as we are. And so what if I could just take away the urgency like, I really wanted to start taking Friday's off. But I kept feeling like, well, I can't do that until I'm a seven figure business. And then I was just like, you know what, I'm just gonna start doing it. And I honestly now I'm kind of like, that's probably gonna be the thing that makes me a seven figure. Because I stopped, like, forcing it so much, and allowed myself the space to rest and rejuvenate and then come back, you know, even stronger. And yeah, I can relate to that.

Ashley Gartland 26:17

Yeah, I think so much that you said there about the expanding the timeline, right. And like, just letting yourself let go of the urgency. And granted, you have to, you know, be in a place where that can feel good to you and make sure that you're hitting all the goals to make sure you can make, you know, life work with the revenue and a half. But if you're there, and you're like pushing for the next level, and rushing to get there, and it's not feeling good. Totally take the Friday's off and let yourself get there when you get there.

Kate Kordsmeier 26:41

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I wonder, you know, when working with your clients, where do you think the sense of urgency and everything such an emergency and we have to have it now, I mean, I know we live in such an instant gratification culture, but do you feel like there's anything deeper than that, that like where this urgency is coming from?

Ashley Gartland 26:58

I think a lot of it is those outside inputs, where they're just hearing a lot that I made six figures in, you know, six weeks, and I got to the million dollar mark in my first year of business. So they're hearing these like unicorn success stories, but maybe not the full story of those business owners trajectory. And they're thinking like, well, that's possible. So I have to do it. And it's worth asking, like, but how fast do you really need to get there? So I think that's happening a little bit. I think, too, sometimes we attach our own worth to it, right? Like we decide that we're not going to be successful, or we're not a worthy business owner until we hit that goal. And I think that's where you can say both dance like, I'm a great business owner, I'm doing an incredible job. And also, I'd like to hit that goal, but it doesn't have to attach to their own worth. Yeah,

Kate Kordsmeier 27:42

it's really difficult, I think, to detach from the results and the outcomes of things like even if we're not talking about, you know, larger goals, like six or seven figures, but we're looking at, I have a launch coming up or I just want to hit this this milestone in my business. And separating ourselves from like, you are not your business is a lesson that I feel like I have to learn again and again and again. It's not personal, right? Yeah, it feels so personal. But right. It's totally, totally separate. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, you have a primarily service based business? Or do you have more digital courses and things like that,

Ashley Gartland 28:21

you know, I've chosen to stick with a service base. And I think that that's one of those things, that was a decision that I made right up front that allowed me to keep things really simple. So I've done that for the first six years, this year, I'm launching an audio course, it's going to be a small part of my business, I'm still going to be really focused on the service based stuff. And I think like, what's important to call out there is that you have to decide the business model that works for you, whether that's products or courses or one on one services, and then make that decision, then you can design the business in a simple way from there, any of those things can be simple. And you know, you can't have a very life first life giving approach to running a business. But you've got to make the decision on what the business model that makes sense for you as first.

Kate Kordsmeier 29:03

Yeah. So I'd love to unpack that a little bit. Because I know there's so much talk these days in the online marketing space about, you know, everything has to be scalable, and everything has to be like no more trading time for dollars and all that. And I think there is a lot of goodness to those ethos. But it's not maybe the only thing And generally speaking and again, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not a service based business. So I don't know, my understanding is like service based. If you're working one on one with clients, like that isn't scalable, because you're only one person and you only have 24 hours in the day.

Ashley Gartland 29:36

Yeah, it's not totally scalable. it's scalable to a point, right, like you can there's things that you can do like adding in some different types of services to scale it. There's a lot of things that I've done by giving more things to my team that are not stuff so I can do more of the service. And so right, it's scalable to a point but you're totally right. It's not like scalable and definitely, and that's just a decision that I've made that I'm comfortable with and that's you know, it makes sense for me. I will I'll say that a couple of things that have been helpful. One is the passing stuff off to the team that has helped me expand my capacity a little bit. And then another one is having productized services where it's not like I'm trading time for dollars. Exactly. It's my clients are buying a productized service from me, you know, coaching partnership that last six months, and it's got some very like, I don't resort strict, but like some very sad things that we do together. Yeah. And then the other way that I've chosen to scale is with short term stuff. So I do short term coaching intensives. And that's created a lot more revenue for me throughout the years. And it's but it's short term, right? It's a one year thing. And I can plug and play in the seasons in my life, I want to work a little bit more, and I cannot do them and seasons of my life where I don't

Kate Kordsmeier 30:40

write? Well. And the reason I asked this question is because I think there is so much value in service based businesses. And I know that while I don't personally do run one right now, I use them. And like I have coaches, I have people who do one on one services for me are done for you services, and I value them so much. So sometimes I'm like, slow down all this talk about like getting rid of service based businesses like we need them. And so I'm curious, you know, you said, You made this decision very intentionally, what was the reasoning behind it,

Ashley Gartland 31:10

it's how I like to work. And it's the way the work that I do, I think it's the way that gets the best results. So it's really hard to work with someone to like, get in the nitty gritty of their business and streamline it. And it's really hard to do the mindset work to help them you know, do that soft skill work to help them learn to be the kind of business owner who can enjoy a better than big business. It's, you can teach it, but it's so personal, and a lot of stuff comes up around it. So it just feels like the right fit for the type of work that I do. Sure, I could teach it in a course sure I could, you know, do it in group membership or a medic, there's other ways to do it. But I like the deeply immersive one on one interaction. So it's made me and I tried some groups at some point, the coaching school that I went to really suggested, you know, moving into that quickly, I tried it and I was like, like, it just didn't push my buttons.

Kate Kordsmeier 31:57

But I think that's so important. And I'm glad I asked the question because there is no one size fits all business model. And there's pros and cons to each different type of business. And I think it's so important to talk about, especially in a space where people aren't talking a lot about the value of service based businesses and like there is so there are so many advantages to having a service based one on one business, and it's figuring out is that what pushes your buttons is that what lights you up and how you like to work. And if it's not, that's okay, too. But like figuring it out for yourself, not just because, you know, the the big bigwigs in this industry are saying like, you have to have a digital course or you have to do something this way.

Ashley Gartland 32:39

Yeah. And I think like figuring out the business model that's right for you. Sometimes it is both, right, it's about the thing, like sometimes you're gonna do services, and you might have a membership group. And sometimes you might do services and have a course you know, I am playing around with a course right now. Because at six years in, I finally feel like I know exactly what I would put in a course. And I'm keeping it really tight. And I'm very, very specific. It's not like we're going to do all the things. It's one thing, it's fun to experiment with it and see, but all that one on one work informed that if I tried to do this course, you know, in year one, after working with a handful of clients, I wouldn't have had the insights that I have now.

Kate Kordsmeier 33:12

Yeah, for sure. And again, that's just like a good reminder of not rushing things and not jumping the gun because you just feel like it has to happen now. And really just taking your time and leaning in. I think trusting and kind of that divine timing that like it will happen when it's meant to happen or not. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. very harsh. Yeah. So one of the things that you talked about is having the soft skills that you need to run a streamlined business, what do you mean by soft skills?

Ashley Gartland 33:39

You know, I think so much we hear the words like streamline business, or let's simplify your business. And we think, okay, we're going to go in and work on and get great systems in place. And we're going to refine and edit things, and we're going to get team support in place. And I say yes to all of those things. But I also know that a lot of those things don't work, if you don't start changing the way you think about work and operate in your business. So like we can create great boundaries for you with your clients. But if you aren't the kind of business owner who can set and honor boundaries, never gonna work. If you're the kind of person who's like a high achiever, and you're always gonna go for the gold star and the A plus, plus, you're gonna be overwhelmed a lot. So we've got to get you to the soft skill of like learning to up level work. And so there's just lots of stuff that we have to dig into, around letting things go and making decisions and all of those things, those soft skills, that's actually what I see create the most time and freedom for my clients, then, you know, the systems that the team supports, actually, those soft skills. It's really interesting to kind of explore that these past few years.

Kate Kordsmeier 34:34

Yeah, for sure. I'm fascinated by this. And definitely some things that I need to work on myself. And I know like a lot of my students say that they, you know, they identify as perfectionist, so this idea of doing like B level work. It's like, Yeah, right. What I would never, but I remember listening to Rachael Rogers speak last year and she was saying like 80% is the new 100% and like, and I just always resonated with me. I I've referenced it a couple times, I think even on the show, where it's like, what if we just said like, good enough?

Ashley Gartland 35:07

Yeah, feels so scary to people, right? Especially if you're someone who like, is doing like, I was always the student who like wanted to do extra credit. So this has been a lesson that's been really helpful or like coming from journalism, like, you don't turn in 80% work, like you get dinged for that and never hired again. So you definitely have to rework some old patterns that you have, depending on where you're coming from. But if you can recognize that, like, be level work, or the 80%, completely can create results for you. And you can kind of give yourself a little bit of a trial run with it, you know, say I'm going to do this month, I'm going to just focus on billable work and see what happens. That's where you start seeing that you can create a little bit of ease there a little bit of breathing space to,

Kate Kordsmeier 35:43

and what is B level work like mean to you? Because I think, let's just use an example. A lot of people listening are bloggers. So what would that look like for a blogger to say, I'm just going to be okay, with good enough?

Ashley Gartland 35:55

Yeah. So I'll use the example by enewsletter. Because it's, you know, similar thing, and we used to repost it as a blog. So I used to spend like four hours writing my email newsletter, and this was a couple years ago, and my husband looked at me one day, and because I don't get it, like, why does this one thing take you four hours, and I'm like, well, we got to come up with an idea. And it's got to be a great lead. And it's got to be, you know, really witty, and then I would let it sit overnight and edit it again. And it was just like this huge process for this one thing that created results in my business, but not the kind of results that I should be taking, like 25% of my working hours for. So I started to say like, what would it look like here to do B level work. And I just started, you know, scaling back a little bit, I stopped letting myself go in and edit it and edit it and edit it again, I started giving myself a container and saying you're going to write this in 90 minutes, not four hours, and seeing what happened. And it was really interesting to do that as an experiment. Because as I started to do that, I actually was getting more engagement from my audience. And I think it's because I wasn't perfecting it. So it was a little bit more unfiltered and authentic. And people really responded to that. So in that was billable, work save me time. But it also created better results. So if you're a blogger, and you're someone who's like, I'm trying to put all the bells and whistles in here, and I'm spending tons of time on this scale back on the time a little bit, or remove a couple of bells and whistles and see if it still gets the job done.

Kate Kordsmeier 37:10

Yeah, I think in the beginning to well, and not even just in the beginning. But there's a lot of busy work that we can do to kind of like make ourselves feel like we're working, but it's actually kind of hiding and procrastinating. And like, I think what's coming up for me is that like a lot of bloggers or even just people who have a website will tinker with their website and the tiniest little details on it. And it's like, it does not matter. Literally your logo is never gonna make or break your business, your sidebar, your like anything on your website, as long as it is like clean and easy to read and navigate. That is truly all that matters. And people will spend so much time just like in the little details with that stuff. So that's an area where I'm thinking, Okay, do be the level work, like, get a premade template, design a logo yourself on Canva and call it a day, like, move on to the next thing

Ashley Gartland 38:01

and focus on the things that matter. So the thing with B level work is I think there are some areas where you're, you are going to go for the I'm always gonna go for the A with my clients, like I'm always gonna show up and do like the a level work with my clients, but be level work in terms of like content I'm putting out on social media, my newsletter, that's fine, you know. And so there's a little bit of nuance there. And when to play around, you just have to really have a lot of awareness to be able to do that.

Kate Kordsmeier 38:23

Yeah, for sure. And I think sometimes like this is a lesson that I feel like I'm still learning is identifying those areas of what is really moving the needle. So showing up and doing a level work for your clients. Yes, that is moving the needle, they're going to keep coming back. If you didn't do that, then they're going to drop you right. But social media is one of those areas that I feel like I think about, I have tried so many different ways of being on Instagram, because I personally hate it. And I've tried outsourcing it. I've tried giving it to somebody on my team. I've tried like just only posting once a week or whatever. And sometimes I think at the end of the day, I just go like Instagram has never moved the needle for me. Is there the potential for it to move the needle for some people, of course, but what if I just said like, I don't need Instagram, and I just stopped and like didn't do anything, there was no strategy or if I did do anything, it was just because I genuinely was like, I want to share this picture of my kids or whatever. And like started using it more organically. But there's something that is hard to like break that connection of feeling like no, I need to.

Ashley Gartland 39:31

I think it's because like there's a definition of like a good successful business owner is on Instagram and you use Instagram to drive profits in our business. But if you have other things that are doing that, right, like if there's other things that are creating the results for you, and you're noticing Instagram does it. I think it's really fun to say like what does it look like if I let this go? Or do it you know, do it less. Jenny Blake is a business owner who I know recently, you know in the last couple of years quit social media interviewed or my podcast about it and it's one of our most downloaded episodes because I think people are So interested in that idea. And she said, look like I want to quit social media, because I know that it doesn't drive many results for me. But my newsletter does my podcast does my speaking gigs do so I'm gonna lean into those things and give myself full permission to let go there, which could have looked like less me up, they're not doing as much or but for her, it was just like, I'm done. I'm getting off. And it was interesting to see how that played out for her.

Kate Kordsmeier 40:21

It is interesting. And it's funny because it's like, I can do it in some areas, and not others, like my blog Root + Revel. I just decided last year, I just don't have the capacity to do anything on social media for it. So we're literally not going to post anything. I'm not showing up ever. Like it's just, it's done, basically quit it for that account was like, well, this will kind of be an interesting experiment. Because what if all of a sudden, like, our traffic plummets, or, you know, our revenue takes a dive. And nothing happened. It was never driving traffic for me, which I knew, which is part of why I always hated like having to show up there. Even though we had like 45 50,000 followers, it was never moving the needle, and then I stopped doing it and nothing changed. And it was like, okay, that should be giving me the permission, I need to say, See, if you were never getting results anyway, it's not going to make a difference. But it's hard.

Ashley Gartland 41:14

I think that experiment mentality really helps. Like whenever you stop doing something, if we say like I'm making this decision, and it's permanent, we can kind of go into panic mode. But if we can say I'm gonna experiment with this for the next three months, and then I'm gonna look the numbers, and I'm gonna see if there's a difference, like math and numbers, they don't lie. And so that's really helpful for you to put a timeline on it, and then say, I'll check in then, if it cause negative results, you can always make a change and you know, refine it. But a lot of times, I think people find that that things that they kind of already know they need to let go is not going to create a negative result in their business, it actually makes things so much better.

Kate Kordsmeier 41:47

Right? So true, so true.

Interrupting this episode with an important PSA, you are more than your business. You are a whole person, though, you created your business to have freedom and flexibility hopefully, while also creating massive impact and income. Sometimes you feel like your business is running you instead of you running your business. But it is time to change that. That's exactly why I designed the Success with Soul incubator. I've learned that the bigger you grow, the more self care you need. But you can't do that without self managed teams and hands off systems which I teach you how to create inside the incubator. This is for all the spreadsheet nerds who are ready to dig into their data actually know what to do with it and grow their team and support system so you can spend less time in your business and more time enjoying your life. holistic systems are just one part of my signature six part framework, which you can learn more about by going to successwithsoul.co/apply when you apply now for your spot inside the incubator, you'll also get access to our exclusive to our private workshop for accepted applicants. This is a private invite only advanced level workshop, where you'll learn exactly how to scale to 50k a month on autopilot without live launching paid ads, social media or selling your soul. The application only takes five minutes and there is no obligation to enroll. Once your application is accepted. You'll learn my exact six part framework to grow your traffic organically scale your passive income with evergreen funnels, and do it all without burning out. I'll explain everything you need to know about the incubator program. So come on over and apply now. Again, that's successwithsoul.co/apply. Back to the soft skills. So doing B level work. That's one of the soft skills you mentioned. Were there other soft skills you wanted to chat about?

Ashley Gartland 43:49

Well, we talked a little bit about boundaries, setting boundaries and setting boundaries with your own ideas. If you are a kind of person who's going to honor them, like you're going to be overworked and overwhelmed. So I think that's one of them. I think when I see a lot is people confusing more for better. Or they think they have to have more services, more content going out and that like Lance, I'm gonna overwhelm and so quickly. And when they recognize that more isn't necessarily better that like less can actually be better. They can create systems or create services that are really streamlined and simple. They can create marketing plans that are really simple and effective. Like it's really interesting when I see people start to make that shift. How much easier creates

Kate Kordsmeier 44:30

one I was just thinking what you said earlier about your sometimes we're over complicating it to the point of confusing our customers. And there's some expression that's basically like a confused customer does not buy Yeah, it's like sometimes even like over complicating it and we're thinking oh, we're offering all these different things. And there's so many different ways for people to work for us. And people are like, I don't even understand any of this. So I'm just gonna leave.

Ashley Gartland 44:52

Yeah, I think about you know, if you looked at my services page a few years ago, and they were it wasn't even that complicated like I had three services. with quite a few more features in each one, now I have two and far fewer features in each one. But when I was doing sales calls for those three services, I almost felt like I was like out of breath, as I described the different ways to work with me. And I almost felt like the people on the other end were firehose. And so they were getting, they were confused. They were like, remind me what that one hasn't it again, and remind me what the features are. And remind me the price point is too much. When I can get to two services with a few features each my, like prospective clients, on the other end, make the decisions so quickly.

Kate Kordsmeier 45:30

Yeah, so smart, so smart. And another thing that I love that you do is that you have created a six figure business while only working 25 hours a week. So that takes a lot of prioritization and figuring out like, again, we keep talking about which things are actually necessary and which things can I let go of walk us through what you have chosen to prioritize and how you've been able to make this possible?

Ashley Gartland 45:57

Yeah. So I think again, it's the decision first, right, like I went into coaching, saying, I had two very little kids at the time. They're much older now. They're 10, and seven now, but they were three and one at the time when I started. And so I knew like I had 10 1520 hours a week to work back then they were in preschool, one was not in preschool like, so I made this decision upfront, like we decided not to do childcare, that meant I had limited hours to record with the life first approach. And so I needed to make different decisions. So I needed to have, again, just a few services, because if I was trying to deliver 10 different services, and 25 hours a week, not gonna happen, I knew I need to have a really, really good systems that I needed to have everything that I did in my business working like a well oiled machine. And I quickly learned that I needed a little bit of support, because the things that were causing me to go above the 25 hours a week were things that I just didn't know how to do or couldn't do very efficiently, like design or tech stuff in the backend of my business. And so that's where I started to see the need for Team support. So I think it was those three things, keeping things really simple on the services front, having great systems in place, and then a little ways down the line investing in some team support that helped me have a very efficient and you know, well oiled machine running in the background and allowed me to work those 25 hours a week.

Kate Kordsmeier 47:12

Yeah. And do you feel like there were mindset shifts that needed to happen in order to start delegating and bring on that support?

Ashley Gartland 47:19

Yeah, I mean, I spent about eight years in my freelance business doing I mean, doing it all, like, there's so many things I should have and could have outsourced? It didn't because I was so I'm the solopreneur, this is what I do, I don't need help. So I really had to go from somebody who couldn't ask for help to someone who could ask for help. And then also, I feel like I have to become someone who could receive help when it's offered. And this is a skill I'm still working on. You know, I my team says, Hey, we could do that for you. Or we could take that thing off your plate. And it's something that I usually do, it's still hard for me to say, Oh, sure, go ahead. Like I have to check myself there. But the mindset shift was definitely learning to be someone who asked for help. And the way that I got and the reason I was able to do it, is because I recognized what it was costing me like, I recognize that if I didn't have help with design, I would be spending 10 hours on a PDF that would take someone one hour, and I could have spent those 10 hours making revenue in my business or enjoying outdoor time with my girls. So that trade off became really clear. And it was much easier to invest in help at that point. Yeah.

Kate Kordsmeier 48:15

Did you feel like your business was already making enough money where it was like not a finance, there was no financial issue to invest in health? Or was that also part of what you had to figure out? Like, okay, I can't technically afford this, but I'm gonna do it anyway. Or how did that

Ashley Gartland 48:31

Yeah, I feel like I was a little bit more in that boat. Like, I know that I need this, if you run the numbers, it doesn't totally make sense. It's a little bit of a stretch, but I decided that I was going to, you know, do it anyway, and make it work. And I think another way that I was able to do it is I started with baby steps, I didn't like hire my OBM for 20 hours a month, you know, right out of the gate. I first hired her for one project to see how it went. And then I hired her for a second project. And then we started with a very low monthly retainer of like five hours a month. And we've just continued to grow that over time as my revenue and needs have gone up. And that's been really, really helpful. It's kept me feeling like it's a safe way to do it. Yeah. And also, it just makes sense from the business perspective.

Kate Kordsmeier 49:11

Yeah. And I mean, going back to like chicken or the egg, I feel like hiring is always going to be one of those things where it's like in order to get to the next level, you can't do it alone. And so you need to hire support, but you're not at the next level yet. So how do you pay for it? But it's like you just have to sometimes I think take that risk. And I mean, I would not just encourage anybody to just like it needs to be a calculated risk. That's you know, intentional, but I think if you have you're always waiting until you have like that cash in your bank account in order to do it in some ways like then you'll never do it.

Ashley Gartland 49:45

I think the bigger risk like I definitely made that was kind of looking at the cash but it was also the the making this jump to hiring someone that I needed down the road versus right now. So I could have probably hired a very like low level VA to do the things that my OPM was doing, but I Recognize that down the road, I would really love to have someone who knew the ins and outs of my business and could also provide strategic support and just like a lot more advanced support. Yeah. So I probably was paying her, you know, twice as much as I would have paid a VA for the things that I recognized, like, I want her to grow with me. So this investment, this risk is worth it to me.

Kate Kordsmeier 50:17

Yeah, for sure. So what does your team look like today?

Ashley Gartland 50:21

So I have my OBM, Megan Julia, who runs whitespace. And she handles my team. So the way that we do things is like she and I connect him. And then she knows everything, my business and she goes and disseminates everything to the team. So that's a really nice arrangement, because I'm actually not managing my team, like somebody else is doing that. And that saves me a lot of time. She's managing a copywriter who's helping with repurposing stuff, a va who's doing a lot of posting, and then the designer who does graphics for the podcast, and then the podcast editor. So you know, for two people, and they're each doing a little piece of the business and it works beautifully.

Kate Kordsmeier 50:55

Yeah. Have you ever had any instances where you felt like, gosh, it would just be quicker for me to just tell this person what I want, rather than trying to like use a middle woman or I don't know, if there's ever been any friction, and like, Oh, she didn't deliver the message the way I would have or something like that.

Ashley Gartland 51:13

We have a really interesting arrangement, because the designer that she hired, you know, within her team is my old designer who I used to just interface with myself. And so that's the only place where it's kind of like, Well, hey, I used to just tell Caitlin stuff I used to just, you know, email her and say, This is what I want. And so now there is like, one extra kind of hoops to jump through. But because that's our system for communication across the board, it works really well to just have everything operating the same way.

Kate Kordsmeier 51:36

Yeah, yeah. Something that's come up for me that I've been thinking about. And it actually was a podcast interview I did earlier today talking about like, if you're churning through a lot of team members, you know, if you're hiring and having to let go, and doing that a lot, it's usually that the problem is with leadership. And I was thinking about that and thinking well, but sometimes if you have somebody else managing the team, like is the problem then with their leadership? Or is the problem with your leadership that maybe somebody else shouldn't be managing your team entirely? And thinking about that, so that I'm just asking about the friction and stuff that comes up with having kind of somebody else managing? It's similar to how I do my business as well?

Ashley Gartland 52:19

Yeah, I think that the only friction we've had recently is that sometimes when there's things going on, like new hiring going on in the team is realizing that I need to be aware of that and recognizing that I need to know like, Hey, we let a VA go, we're bringing on a new VA. So there may be a little bit more like not necessarily mistakes, but just refining of processes and communication happening. So a little bit more patience on my end needed. Like, I mean, like a tiny bit, gets easily so seamless, I wouldn't have noticed. But we've learned that it's really helpful for me to just have a little bit of knowledge about what's going on with the whole team in the background. And that's really been great. Yeah, interesting. Okay,

Kate Kordsmeier 52:54

I love it. This has been so helpful. We have a lightning round that we do with everybody. But before we get to that, tell everyone where they can find you and how they can work with you.

Ashley Gartland 53:03

Yeah, so if you want to learn more about you know, the services, I mentioned, long term protein partnership, the course I'm about to launch do less live more or my service intensives you can go to Ashley gartland. calm. And if you like these kind of conversations about running a business that simple and streamlined. Definitely check out better than make podcast you know, wherever you listen to podcast. Yeah, love it. Okay.

Kate Kordsmeier 53:23

So what is your favorite way to make time for self care?

Ashley Gartland 53:27

Hmm, gosh, like prioritizing about other things. Does that make sense? Like I think it's really important, like for me, like the self care needs to happen before I dive into anything else. So for me, it's like carving out self care time in the morning. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Kate Kordsmeier 53:40

What is one tool or strategy used to help with time management,

Ashley Gartland 53:43

extending my timelines like 100%. It's that we always think we can do more in the time we have available. And so if I say I'm going to, you know, launch this new thing in a month, I'm like, Nope, it's probably two months that you've give yourself the space to make it two months. Yeah, for sure.

Kate Kordsmeier 54:00

What's one of the most powerful business mindset entrepreneurial books you've read?

Ashley Gartland 54:06

I've read so many good ones. But I'm right in the middle of essentialism right now. And which surprise no one but it's a given what I do and what I love. It's been really, really reaffirming what I believe.

Kate Kordsmeier 54:18

Yeah, that's a great one. Any quotes or mantras, affirmations that you're telling yourself lately?

Unknown Speaker 54:24

I use the phrase be here now a lot, you know, to remind myself to be present to enjoy what I'm in because I think one of the ways we can plan ourselves in overwhelm is by like hanging out other kids and being in work mode and thinking through the day and what we need to do so be here now has been really helpful and grounding me in the current moment. That's great.

Kate Kordsmeier 54:41

I need that one. This show is obviously called Success with Soul. What does Success with Soul mean to you?

Unknown Speaker 54:48

It means doing things in alignment. For me, like it really means that the success that I'm going after is in alignment with the way that I want to live and work, not someone else's definition. Yeah,

Kate Kordsmeier 54:57

exactly. Love it. Thank you so much, Ashley. Thank you so much for this wonderful conversation.

Wait a minute. I know I know you're eager to get back to your life. But before you turn off this episode, I want to share something super quick with you. I know you're probably sick of hearing other podcasters ask you to leave reviews. But here's the deal. If you like a podcast, and you want them to be able to continue delivering you free episodes every week, we need your support. If you subscribe on the apple podcast, Google podcast, app, Spotify, or wherever you listen, it makes it possible for me to continue to provide free helpful content and bring you amazing guests. And if you take it one step further, by giving us a rating and review with your honest feedback, we can improve better serve you in the future. And you could even be featured on a future episode during our listener spotlights. Because if we don't get the reviews, we don't get the rankings and it makes it a lot harder to continue justifying the cost and time expense of producing a podcast every week and convincing amazing guests to come on the show. And of course your reviews are super helpful and motivating to me personally and I love hearing from you

Transcribed by https://otter.ai