113: Sharing Revenue: A New Coaching Model Disrupting the Industry, with Lacey Sites

Katie Kus 0:00

Hi, I'm Katie Kus here with Oregon Girl Holistic skincare. And I am part of the Success with Soul incubator. My favorite part about being in the incubator is I know no matter what roadblock I hit, whether it's a mental roadblock, something with tech, or just trying to decide what the next steps need to be in creating my offer, I can always reach out to the team and Kate and they are going to be there with heartfelt thoughtful advice that is catered specifically to my business needs. And where I'm at in my business growth. The Incubator has completely transformed how I've been able to approach my business, and I really do feel like they've just become part of my team. So I'm so thankful for being a part of the incubator.

Intro 0:47

You're listening to the Success with Soul podcast with Kate Kordsmeier, ex-journalist turned CEO of a multi six figure blog and online business. But it wasn't that long ago that Kate was a struggling entrepreneur who lacked confidence, clarity, and let's be honest money. But all those failures, experiments and lessons learned helped Kate create a thriving business that impacts 1000s and brings freedom, flexibility and fulfillment to her life. If you're ready to do the same and make something happen with holistic, soulful, step by step strategies from Kate and other experts, you're in the right place. Here's your host, writer, educator, mom, recovering perfectionist, bookworm and sushi connoisseur Kate Kordsmeier

Indira 1:35

Welcome back to the Success with Soul podcast. I'm your guest host Indira with Team KK and in today's episode, Kate sits down with Lacey Sites, a business mentor and success coach for high performing women entrepreneurs, Kate and Lacey take a deep dive into the revenue share model, which is truly disrupting the coaching industry. They discuss who the best clients are for revenue share why it's so important to make time for self care. Hint, you get the best downloads when you do. They also go into how you can take maternity leave when you have revenue, share clients, creative ways to do revenue share, even if you're not a business coach, and the MSE framework, Mindset, Strategy and execution. Y'all this episode was amazing. And we're so excited to share it. Let's dive in.

Kate Kordsmeier 2:36

Lacey. Welcome. I'm so excited to have you on the show and talk about something we have never covered before.

Lacey Sites 2:42

Yes, thank you. Hey, thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

Kate Kordsmeier 2:47

Yes, you are such a disrupter and change maker in this industry. And it's so cool to see women doing things differently and making things work for them. So I mentioned in the intro that I first learned about Laci, when a friend of mine mentioned that she was considering doing a revenue share model with her coaching clients. And I was like, what is that? I don't even know what that means. How does that how does that work. And of course, this is for business coaches. But she sent me a podcast episode that you had done. And then I just like Googled your name and the podcast app and listened to like five more episodes you had done on the topic. And then was like, she's gotta come on the show. This is such an interesting model. So if you want to just go ahead and like give us kind of the quick and dirty of what does revenue share really mean for coaching? Yes, totally.

Lacey Sites 3:39

So like you said, it works, I think best in a business coaching model. So that's how I use it. But I think there are like, obviously other applications. But basically, the way that we do it is we charge a base rate. So our base rate is 1250 a month, and then we charge a revenue percentage on top of that. So that's 10%. And the way that we do it is it's new revenue generated through our work together. So it's not like we just come in and like all of a sudden have 10% of your business. It's like new sales post our work together are part of the partnership. And, you know, we felt like clients really appreciate that. It's not just like, Oh, I'm giving over 10% of the business and it's finite, like, it's not like it's forever it's like for the amount of time that we work together. So

Kate Kordsmeier 4:23

we worked with our best expenses for six months, a year, it's for your so on and so forth. So it really does work the best I would say when you're working with someone long term, but in general, I mean, I think it can work in different forms, different capacities. But for us, our minimum commitment is six months, but most of our clients stay with us for years. So that's why it relates to no balls and works over time too. Right? Right. Okay. And so in the coaching industry, you know, you kind of have two main options, one on one or group and it seems like most of the Guru's out there are like if you You want to scale beyond a couple 100,000, you're gonna have to either raise your rates to be like 100k to work with me per year, or move to group but you found a way to kind of blend this to so let's start maybe if you can tell us like the results of what happened when you started doing one on one with revenue share added into No, you call it the partnership model? Yes.

Lacey Sites 5:25

I mean, so it's funny because the result at first was nothing, honestly, which I feel like, you know, I try to be really transparent about because I think of you start this model in your business, you kind of have to be prepared for it to take some time to build. So what I, when I started doing it, I had a full like client roster at that time. And so I didn't like just all of a sudden tell all my clients like, oh, you owe me 7%. Now. So they were all still on like regular payment plans. And so I would just like add a client, here and there on this model. And over time it grew. So I've been doing this for about five years. And we now make seven figures a year from it, although last year a little bit less, because I did go on maternity leave, which I think we'll probably talk about that. So you it's easy to sort of hear that number and be like, Oh my God, you can use this model and have a seven figure business. And it's true that you can but most of it is compound effect, like it's not usually going to look like, you start this and then the next month, like, you know, you're there kind of thing. So the results were fantastic. And they took time.

Kate Kordsmeier 6:33

Gotcha. Okay, so roughly, if you can recall off the top of your head, how many one on one clients? Did you have to have to get to a million dollars with this model? I

Lacey Sites 6:45

think I probably have like 20 to 20.

Kate Kordsmeier 6:50

Okay, and are you meeting with them weekly, monthly, like,

Lacey Sites 6:54

so what we do is three sessions a month, so everyone has an off week, some people do it differently. I don't do the same off week. So it's not like I work for three weeks and then take a week off. It's just that they're, you know, they all have their own off week. So it kind of scattered. So most of my weeks aren't super full, because there's like, it's not like I have 22 calls in a week. Right? Because like they each have different off weeks.

Kate Kordsmeier 7:18

Right? That's super helpful. And I think that's one of the hesitations that people have when they hear feeling one on one is like, I'm going to be on the phone or on Zoom.

Lacey Sites 7:27

Yeah, totally. And, you know, here's the thing for me, I like that. Like I love having one on one conversations on Doom all day. Like I actually really enjoy that. I'm not saying there wouldn't be like a point at which I was tapped out at better kept. I don't want to have like seven a day or something like that. But I think it's also just picking the model that serves you best. Like for me having to like create course content and things like that, like, that does not feel easy to me. That's not a great day. For me. That's not my best day by far. So like, I think that that's part of it, too, is like my best day is doing that.

Kate Kordsmeier 8:03

Yeah, totally. Yeah. And I think somebody like me, I'm very introverted. And so while I do like one on one, you know, conversations, to be on call that often is, like, so depleting to me. But I like this too, because, you know, it doesn't have to be that my entire business goes this way. It's like, oh, what would it look like if I experimented having like one or two clients that just Do you know, this way, I recently got certified as a life coach with a bunch of other modalities. And it was like, I really wanted to go deep with one person and see what could we could uncover that way. And this was like, when it came across just right, literally, as I was wrapping up that certification, it like fell into my lap. I was like, this is genius. Tell me why you even how'd you come up with this in the first place? Yeah,

Lacey Sites 8:55

totally. And also like love the idea of like, it could just be a few clients, right? Like, I think that that's so true. And that's what's nice about it is like, there is no like, right way or limitations around it. But so when I in my like previous life, I worked in the nonprofit world. And one of the things I did and really focused on there was like I really liked like reengineering service delivery models, like how can we be more accessible? How can we create more ease and people utilizing our services, like all of those kinds of things. And so my brain was kind of already programmed to be thinking about that. And when I was doing one on one I just noticed there's like a huge barrier to entry in our industry like most, I mean, I'm obviously being completely broad here, but most one on one starts like over the 567 1000. And now Bosch are in our industry like way beyond that mark. And so it was just interesting to me to be like so many people want one on one and don't have can't like access it. What would it what would it look like to make that more accessible? What would that be like and so I was just kind of like thinking and dreaming and had been ideating on that for a while. And then one day, I was just like, oh, this is how you do it. Like it wasn't really. It just kind of dropped in, I was in the bathtub, like having a bubble bath. It wasn't really like super well thought out, it was just like had been percolating for a while and then sort of just like came to me.

Kate Kordsmeier 10:17

I love that though. I'd heard that story on another podcast and you said it came to you in the bathtub. And I was like, people, this is why it's important to make time for rest and self care. It's when you get the best downloads

Lacey Sites 10:28

1,000% It's no idea in my business has ever not come to me through like rest and self care basically.

Kate Kordsmeier 10:37

Exactly, exactly. So who do you feel like is the best client to do a revenue share model with like, when I first learned this idea, it was like, Okay, do I want to go to a client who's not making any money yet? And so there's like so much potential? Or do I want to go to a client who already has like a very proven business? And I know they can make money? And now I'm just gonna help them make more of it? What did you find for you? Or there's probably no one right answer. But yeah, first of all, I'm

Lacey Sites 11:08

obsessed that question because nobody's asked me that. And I feel like that's like such like a yes, this is like the, we need to think about this. Right? So what I'll say is that I think it actually helps to have a bit of a mix. The clients that I have that started at zero, and the revenue share model, I probably would say, like most of them are, the clients like that, for me are the most like financially, like lucrative in a sense, like, I have some clients that started with me at zero, and now have seven figure businesses and I have like, 10% of that, obviously, like, I'm making quite a bit off that however, you know, there's a longer lead up there, like, let's just be real. So it's like, you're really, that one of those clients didn't make any money for the first six months we work together. So like, that's a trade off. And then, you know, I think on the flip side, someone who already has a really, you know, beautiful business model that's already working for them in many ways, you'll make some money initially, which is helpful, typically, but the upside of that is just smaller in some regards. I mean, obviously, they can grow. But I mean, like, I've had a client that came to me already making seven figures when she started. So like, obviously, we can have growth there. And it was great, because, like, the financial benefit of that was realized pretty quickly. But it's different than taking someone from like zero to that, you know what I mean?

Kate Kordsmeier 12:29

Yes, exactly. We created all these, like, you know, spreadsheets and ran all these models of trying to figure out like, what is there an income level? How much are we you know, so it's so interesting, I think, yeah. Pros and cons to each like, do you want to make more money now? Or maybe potential to make a lot more money down the road? I'm curious, how have your clients who, especially ones that maybe started and they were paying either like small, you know, Commission's each month, I don't know if that's the right term for it. But like, the percentage was really small each month, and then all of a sudden, now they're paying you like 10s of 1000s of dollars, like, how do they feel about that?

Lacey Sites 13:10

I think that it is one of those things that sort of evolves over time in their processing, like, what I typically find is that initially, I feel like they're so excited to pay that because, you know, if they if someone starts with you at like, zero, and now they've like, blown up and like, it's almost like some of my clients, like, that's almost like a goal for them is to be like, I can't wait until I can give you X amount, and it's only 10% of my revenue. So it's like, initially, I feel like there's so much excitement around it. And then I do feel like there's this like leveling off period, where they're like, holy shit, I'm paying you what, you know, X amount per month. And I'd like there's like a lot of processing there. But typically, I feel like they really appreciate it over time. Because, you know, especially the bigger your business gets, there is more fluctuation sometimes, like if you're running a big launch model business or something like that, right? We're like, I'm not trying to like make a story here. It's like, oh, you have a big business, it always fluctuates. But I'm just saying there are ebbs and flows and seasons sometimes, right. And so for them, I feel like it's really comforting being like, this moves with me, kind of, you know what I mean? Like one of my clients just changed her business model quite significantly, and she was already making seven figures. And so she's gonna have a dip because we made these really big changes. And for her, I think it's so comforting to be like, and I know that like, I can keep you as my coach during that dip. Because I'm like, You're gonna dip with me and you're invested in that way. And so I feel like, yeah, it's almost like really exciting. A lot to process then it feels good long term.

Kate Kordsmeier 14:42

When you were saying that it reminds me of people who are like, Oh, I don't want to make a lot of money because I don't want to have to pay a lot in taxes. Like the logic just isn't quite there when you're like, but if you're paying a lot in taxes, it means you have more money to pay it. With your you're like 30,000 and now paying six figures in taxes.

Lacey Sites 15:05

Yes. 100%. And, you know, I think even with the taxes thing, it's like, yes, initially, you have to be like, wait, I have to, like really wrap my brain around this. But like, once you do, you're like, Wait, there's only an upside here.

Kate Kordsmeier 15:16

Yeah, exactly. And you've mentioned something that also made me think about like the beginning to, which is a lot of people want to invest in a coach, and they have the thought, what if it doesn't work. And while there's the base rate, still, it's almost like this built in protection. That's like, if it doesn't work, you're not paying me more like you're only paying me more if we're getting the results.

Lacey Sites 15:39

It's almost like what I think about it as is like, the base rate is almost like for my time and my team's time. Right. So it's like, for my time in terms of like the exchange of like, showing up and for my team time in terms of like, all the setup, and then the percentage is like the results you get. So it's like, yeah, if you're really freaked out about like, what am I don't get results or something, it's like, well, then you won't pay for anything, you know.

Kate Kordsmeier 16:01

Right, exactly. And so what's the timeline for this? I know, when I first listened to you on a few podcasts, I was like, Wait, so are they paying you forever? Is it as long as you're working together? You get those revenue commissions? How does that work?

Lacey Sites 16:17

Yes, just the time that we're working together. So it's like, if it's six months, it's just for those six months. If it's yours, it's obviously for those years. But like, when we stopped working together, that would stop I never want them to feel like they're like giving over their business long term. Like, I don't think that makes sense for this setup. I don't that's was not my intention. And I don't think that's actually like the most integrity way to handle it. So for me, it's like it stops when we stop.

Kate Kordsmeier 16:45

Yeah, that makes sense. I had this like total scarcity thought that's like, but then if you like they come in, you help them make a lot of money. And then just when you would start to see the payoff of that they're like, Alright, I'm done here.

Lacey Sites 16:59

Totally. I think a lot of people think that but that have honestly never been my experience, just because I feel like when you've like really been that in it with someone, and they really can tie like, because what's nice about the percentage is like they can literally tie how your coaching created this, you know what I mean? Like in, in other coaching containers, I think you could be like, oh, yeah, that coach helped me, but it's like, harder to like, be able to be like this to this, but like ours, it's like, well, you literally started here and went to here over the course of this six months. So I feel like they're just really bought into the idea of partnership at that point. And it's still only only right. I mean, I know, it's still a large amount, but it's like only 10%. So it's like, I feel like most people can really wrap their head around that. Because if you're hiring this is another thing that's interesting. Like most of my clients, like if they were to go hire another coach at this point, like it would be about equivalent, you know, because like, another coach that's like, whatever for a seven figure business while like they're charging you shit ton of money too. So I think that they just realized, like, the grass isn't greener kind of thing at that path.

Kate Kordsmeier 18:04

That's so good to hear. And I feel like such a good reminder of like, normally when you're getting people results, they want to keep getting results with you and not the lack mentality of like, then they're gonna leave. And it is true. I mean, I was looking for a new business coach at the end of last year, and it was like most that are working with like, high six, seven figure earners are charging $100,000 at a minimum. Yeah. No guarantee, and no, like, if you make less, you're still paying me the same.

Lacey Sites 18:36

Right? No, like, I'll write it out. Like you are like, yeah, if you make a change or whatever, right, exactly. So I think it is like, it's just hard to sort of even compare at that point, you know,

Kate Kordsmeier 18:48

yeah, totally. So to go back to kind of like, I don't want to put this as like one on one versus group, I think this is a good way to bury them. But one thing that does come up and you mentioned maternity leave is like when you want to take off. Now you still have to figure out how to take off with a group. So I'm not saying that that doesn't exist. But I think it feels a little different to me for one on one. How has your experience been with that? And maybe we can kind of start more broadly with like just your experience and taking time off in general and then talk about maternity leave?

Lacey Sites 19:20

Yes, I think that's helpful because they're almost in my mind, like two different beasts to a certain extent. Like I think time off in general, I've just never had an issue with because my clients do three sessions a month. So like, technically, if I wanted to just do three weeks and then have an off week. I could do that pretty easily with Yeah, those three weeks would be a little bit more full, but it's so doable. Have just never found that to be difficult and have that have taken plenty of vacations here and there over time for me. In fact, it's almost been easier with one on one because it's like you're just moving like one person session instead of like, yeah, 30 people that have to, I do have master ranges for clients that have been with me for a really long time. There's like 12 have s in there and like that one to me to move I like dread. Because, like, well people talk busy people's schedule kind of thing. But in general, I haven't found taking time off to be hard maternity leave was definitely a different beast, because now we're talking about like actual payment issues and things like that. And ultimately, what I decided to do is just take four months off and not get paid for them. And you know, I feel like for some people, that's not an option, or that doesn't feel as good. But for me, what I did is like, pretty much right, when I found out I was pregnant, I figured out like, how much do I need to like be bringing home and pay my team over that time. And I just put that much away each month. And so by the time I got there, it was like really doable. I think I easily could have found other ways to make that work. Like one of the options that we were throwing around is like break payments up, like make that a longer stretch, et cetera, et cetera. But for me, it felt good to just be like, I don't want to kind of be like on the hook for anything or even worried about breaking payments up. Like I just kind of want to be able to support baseball through this. So again, I don't know that that's like the best option for everyone. But for me, it really felt good.

Kate Kordsmeier 21:14

Yeah. And then so for the clients that were working with you before and wanted to continue working with you when you got back. Everything was like just on pause during that time.

Lacey Sites 21:24

Yeah, exactly. It was really cool. Actually, like I kind of assumed some people would be like, you know, thanks, but nothing sort of. But nobody like every every single client I had stayed through that time period. I had my co oh do some calls with them. I put them in like groups with each other. So they had some like partnership and masterminding abilities while I was gone, and everyone was like, happy to ride it out. And honestly, I think, you know, it was a win for them in a certain sense, too, because it's like they knew they had a spot when I came back. But they all saved like a shit ton of money for a few months, too. So it was like not like most of them were like, okay, cool.

Kate Kordsmeier 22:02

Do you feel like when you're doing this partnership model that your clients expect more from you.

Lacey Sites 22:09

It's so interesting, because I almost feel like the opposite. And at times where I feel like they feel like they should be like showing me something where they're like, Oh, but I like really want to make sure I'm like paying you X amount this month. And I'm like, let's stop that has nothing that like this, that does not have to be a thing. But I've actually found that to be more challenging than the opposite. Where I kind of have to work to be like do not think about what you're paying here that money related me for this like to like really almost like put the spotlight back on them has actually been more challenging than feeling like they expect more. Right, right.

Kate Kordsmeier 22:45

It's a kind of reminds me too of like how sometimes the clients who pay you the most money require the least from you, like they just have so much of their own, like self motivation and responsibility. And I don't know you it's almost counterintuitive, but it seems to always be the case for me.

Lacey Sites 23:04

Yeah, totally. And I think they just feel that partnership, because I think that that's what it feels like. So it doesn't feel like I'm paying you this much you must deliver it feels like we're in this together. And so I feel like it gives a different, you know, just like vibe around the whole thing.

Kate Kordsmeier 23:20

Yeah. And so how did you now that you've been doing this? How many years? Have you been about five? Okay, so I'm sure most of your people are like, used to hearing about it or understand the way that your model works now, but especially in the beginning, when you first started introducing it, how did you like explain it to people in a way that made them be like, This sounds perfect.

Lacey Sites 23:44

So what I actually did at first was for maybe like a year, I did it where I would just open a couple of spots in my business for people and I didn't do the base rate, I just did 20%. So it's like it kind of rolled out to my audience in this like, sort of micro way at first. And so it's almost like they came along on the journey with me. I'm like, I'm trying this. I'm doing this at 20%. And I would like share some client results from that and what that looks like. And so then when I was like, Okay, I'm moving it to the base rate and 10% It almost felt like most of them already were like on board and kind of got what I was doing at that point. So it was sort of nice like that something I talked about. A lot remind people a lot. It's like when you want to do something innovative, like go slow. Like it wouldn't have been very helpful to me, I don't think had I changed my whole business model at that time. Like the fact that I had a year of testing some version of that under my belt is what made it easy for me and easy for my audience. But ultimately, I think for most people, it just really makes sense. Like I think this idea of like, oh, I pay you if I get results just like lay on for a lot of people. And I really didn't. The one thing that I did have happen is a lot of people would be like, well, I'll give you 30% If I don't have to We hit the base rate. And I'm like, first of all, don't give anyone 30% of your business. But also like no, like, that just is our setup. So that's like one thing I had to combat a lot at first, where people would just be like, well, instead of that, let's do this, and I kind of had to, like really hold true to like, Nope, it looks like this.

Kate Kordsmeier 25:17

Yeah. And I listened to one episode, I can't remember which show it was on now. But you talked about how you almost like, ran it as a contest at first, like, so can you share about that?

Lacey Sites 25:28

Yeah. So basically, what I when I was doing just like the 20%, and no bass, right? My biggest concern was like art, does this just seem too good to be true kind of thing. Like, I don't have to pay anything for coaching and like, whatever. So I wanted it to be very, like, you had to show me in some way that you are committed because money is a commitment. And so if money isn't the commitment, like what is and so I did like a three part. Kind of like, yeah, I guess contest. I can't remember what I called it at that time. But so people had to, like fill out a business plan, they had to make a video and kind of like, put it out there. And then they had to fill out an application as well. I think I can't remember. I'm pretty sure those were the three. And so it went, I think it was almost a month because each of those was a week. And then I had a week. Oh, they had to ask me questions, too. Then I had like a week where they'd ask me questions. And then I made the decision and picked who I was going to work with. And so to me, if they were committed for like, almost a month of going through that process, being willing to write a business plan, being willing to ask a question, being willing to like, fill out an application, I felt like, okay, like you're serious enough about it, that I'm willing to kind of, like take a gamble here, but was so important to me, because like, you know, having some skin in the game on their end, which is ultimately another reason I did go to the base rate, like I do think having some skin in the game is pretty important.

Kate Kordsmeier 26:50

Totally agree. I was just thinking when you were saying that, that we've given scholarships out in the past to different courses and programs and things. And those people never get results because they almost never show up. You know, and it's so interesting to see where it's like you really have to have that some kind of energetic exchange. Very straightforward one. That's like, I give you this. And now I feel the responsibility to like to get my money's worth, you know? Yeah. So people always like, I wish you did more scholarships. I'm like, I mean, we do a couple and I still every time I do them, I'm like, well, they never showed up to anything. So

Lacey Sites 27:31

it's so interesting, right? Like, it's like, there is something about being bought in and like, obviously, money is a way to buy in, but like, yeah, we're it just doesn't feel like oh, like, I'll try this thing. And we'll see. It's like, No, I'm invested in this thing. Let me do it. You know, like

Kate Kordsmeier 27:47

the difference between being committed and interested. And yes. Oh, this could be nice. Let me see if I can fit it in whatever. And yeah, totally. Well, hey, there, it's Kate Kordsmeier. And I wanted to play a quick game with you. Let me know which of these you can raise your hand for? Are you wanting to reconnect with your authentic self, soul and purpose to become the woman you want to be? We want you to create aligned habits for more rest and less stress to live intentionally and take control of your daily life, to connect to other women who are on growth journeys, and rediscover your inherent worthiness and value so you can step into your power. Are you wanting to get clarity on life's decisions and your direction? Are you wanting to partner with your mindset to achieve your goals and find the balance between your priorities and all of the competing roles you serve? If you're saying yes, then you're going to absolutely love our upcoming founding members launch for our brand new Success with Soul membership. Now, this is for all women. It is truly life coaching, not just business and not just for entrepreneurs. During the week of February 8 through February 14 of 2023, you will have a chance to join for 50% off at just $44 per month. And the best part when you join during our founding members launch, you will lock in the $44 price for the lifetime of your membership. That means that for less than $1.50 a day you'll have access to live monthly soul sessions with leading experts live monthly group mindset coaching calls, monthly journal prompts in accordance with the moon and so much more including pre recorded lessons and past soul sessions and some extra special bonuses just for our founding members. Head on over to Kate kordsmeier.com forward slash membership to join our waitlist and be the first to know when the cart opens. That's Kate kordsmeier.com forward slash membership

So you mentioned at the beginning that there are some non business coaching applications for this. I was so like trying to think too about, does this only work for business coaches? How else could you do revenue share, if you're not directly helping them make money?

Lacey Sites 30:16

I think that what you could do, um, listen, I mean, I think this is, this would be like, totally, somewhat like out of the box and risky. But I have talked to some clients about doing almost like a bonus when you get a certain result. So let's say like you're a health coach or something like that, and like your client wants to, like, you know, lose X amount of pounds or something. So what you could do is unless there's like a bonus structure, like, almost like revenue share is a bonus structure, right? And it's like, when you get this amount, it equals that payment when you get this result equals that payment. So I think there is ways to play with that around like, what results are you getting? And then I also think there's, if you're doing something that helps the business, but aren't a business coach, like say, You're a copywriter or mindset coach or something like that? I do think there are elements there where people can connect it enough that it makes sense. But yeah, I think that those are, you have to be a better salad, though. But yeah,

Kate Kordsmeier 31:15

that's still really interesting, because I was racking my brain trying to think of it but that now you say that I'm like, oh, so simple. Like, this is the base rate. And if you lose 100 pounds, right? This or I hate always using weight loss examples, but you know, like, right, you let you achieve the goal that you set out for some things are a little harder to measure of, like, I'm helping you feel less overwhelmed, and then say, how are we going to measure that like on a scale of one to 10? And then it can get tricky, but I think there is definitely some ways to get creative in there.

Lacey Sites 31:47

100%. And it also I think, what's nice about it, too, that I find is that it almost like helps you add some of those like, KPIs to your coaching that you maybe wouldn't, to a certain extent, you know, like it makes you have to like dig a little bit deeper to be like, Okay, so like, what would that look like in this case? Or what would be our metric to measure? And I think that can be kind of exciting.

Kate Kordsmeier 32:08

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So one of the other ways that I feel like you've really disrupted the way that things normally happen is with your podcast, which is so cool. It's like one client's entire six month container that you do. Well, watching calls get published to your podcast, and it's like a season, right? Yes. Yes, exactly. Say more.

Lacey Sites 32:32

So I had wanted to do a podcast for a while, but it just like nothing ever quite landed for me or felt like oh, yeah, this is the thing. And then our graphic designer kind of said something to me about it one time of like, oh, like, you could just show your coaching. I was like, I'll just show my coaching. Yeah, like da like, it just like with the second I heard that idea with like, 100%. That's the only thing that makes sense. That's what I love to do. That's what I talk about. That's right. Focus on Yes. And obviously was like very nervous about that, in many ways, because I think it's like, so vulnerable for the client, but it's actually really vulnerable as a coach to to be like, here's all my work, right? How am I like, watch and criticize, feel free? Yes. But it's been like one of the best things I've done in my business. And I just really feel like, it also makes it so that when I get clients now, like, I'm just like, You are the perfect fit client, because most of them have heard me coach for at least a season, if not more. And so it's like, they already know that that's what they're looking for. That's the dynamic that they're after. And so I'm like really helpful on that level for me, too, of just being like, they already kind of know what to expect. And it's not like we're gonna get into coaching being like, ooh, like, there's not resonance here with how you support me. It's like, oh, no, that's exactly what I was expecting.

Kate Kordsmeier 33:55

Right, right. Yeah. And so how do you convince your clients to like, be willing to

Lacey Sites 34:02

be so vulnerable? It's really interesting, because way more people have been open to doing it than I ever thought, like, the first person I pitched it to was definitely like, Whoa, I don't know, this is a lot. And she, like had to think about it and have like, a little bit of a, like a waffle moment of like, Oh, no. And then because like, hadn't been done, but for the most part, we're like, it has been really easy to find people that want to do it, because I think that for them, it's almost like one, it's a second level of commitment. Like I find that a lot of people want to do it when they're in a season of being like, I want to be so committed to myself, I want to follow through on the things I say I want to show up in a big way. So that's been really cool. And then also like, I think for some people, it's just good exposure to a certain extent, too. So it's a win for them in that sense, too. So yeah, it really has been neat in that way.

Kate Kordsmeier 34:53

So cool. One of the other things that my team actually wrote down here for me and my notes is that you created this Ms. E framework. And that also feels like kind of going against the grain and a bit because so many times the industry is like, pick one niche. You're either a mindset coach, or you're coaching on a strategy or Yeah. So tell us what your MSC framework is and how it kind of goes against that.

Lacey Sites 35:20

Yeah, oh my gosh, totally that it goes against it, because nothing actually drives me more insane in our industry than that sometimes when it feels like, but like, I need all of these things. So anyway, MFE is Mindset, Strategy and execution. And so for me, it's like, those three things are requirements for success, right? Like, I think it's very hard to get what you want out of business, if one of those is missing. And what I would see over and over again, with clients, is one of those would be missing, and they'd want to double down on the thing that wasn't missing, if that makes sense, right. So it's like, they wouldn't really have like a really good strategy in their minds, that would be messy. But they would just keep wanting to talk strategy over and over and over. And it's like, that's not the problem. Or, you know, like, they'd have a great mindset, but they would never executing on anything. And so it was just like, really interesting to watch this. And the more I realized, like, these ingredients have to come together. And then I wanted to put it in a framework and lean into that, because it makes it easier for clients to see like, Oh, this is my gap, or this is my missing piece, or like, this is where I need to put my attention now. And I just, I don't think there's anything wrong necessarily with someone being like, I just want to work on the mindset aspect of that with my coaching clients, like that's, I'm totally down for that. But I think what gets hard in our industry is that there's not acknowledgement that the rest is still required, like I see so many people that are, let's just use mindset, because we're talking about it that are like mindset coaches, and they're out there being like, it's just mindset, it's just mindset, it's only mindset, but it's like, but strategy, because you post them every day, and you're sharing, and you're doing with it. So like, their anger executing like there's something else behind that. And so I think just being transparent about that is really important.

Kate Kordsmeier 37:06

Yeah. And I love the three things like when I saw this, I was like, That's so true. Just all three of these things are truly needed. Because even getting all the coaching and working on your thoughts and doing all the mindset and energy work, and knowing what to do doesn't mean you're going to actually do it, I've actually do it, we'll have clients that will be like, I'm just not making any money yet. And like, have you made an offer to someone in exchange for payment? Okay, so we need to stop accepting money to come from nothing. And you know, so the execution piece, it's like, seems so obvious, but I feel like people do forget it, or like, Oh, I just thought like buying the course would get me the result, you know what I mean? And it's like,

Lacey Sites 37:58

1,000%, or like the flip side, where it's like, someone's just like, out there executing constantly. And they're just throwing spaghetti at the wall. And it's like, on the flip side of your thing, it's like, or they've made 52 offers, and they're all different. They're all at different price points. And they're all and it's like, you know, it's, I think that it's so funny to see that it's like, anytime we're just all in one, it's usually not working, and then we're frustrated and trying to solve it with the same thing like, oh, I'll just take more action or like, or I'll just read you my strategy. And it's like, if you're not doing it, it doesn't matter.

Kate Kordsmeier 38:31

Right. And then the mindset piece, I mean, I feel like mindsets becoming much more talked about and commonplace. And yeah, you know, but I was thinking two things. One is like, your podcast idea is so brilliant, because a lot of people still don't understand what coaching really is, and what it means. And they think that they just want the strategy of like, just tell me what to do. And it's like, that's never gonna work. So to really show them what coaching is, is so powerful. And where else was I gonna go with that I had a second point that has totally escaped me.

Lacey Sites 39:07

You're so right, though. Like, I think one of the things I would get asked all the time is like, I would be like, do the mindset work, do the mindset work? And people would be like, what does that even mean? You know, because it makes sense. It's not like it's something we all know or like, are taught to do, or whatever. And so just being able to be like, here's literally what it looks like a means is really helpful. Right, right.

Kate Kordsmeier 39:28

Exactly. And thank you that reminded me kind of the second part of that was just that people still don't want to believe that it's their mindset. Like I still have so many clients that will be like, no, no, you know, they're just like in total resistance to like, it's not, this isn't a mindset problem. This is a strategy issue or something. Always like I promise you it's not. And it's just funny. I actually have been trying to change my thoughts around this because I used to have this thought that was like, I'm not going to tell people that they're getting mindset coaching inside Add this program because they think that they don't need that. So but once they get in there, that's what I'll give them. And now I'm like, Wait, what if it was really empowering for people to say, like, you already know what to do, but you would have done it already, you would have the result that you wanted. So like, what if you're just like one thought away from actually getting the result, and all you have to work on is your thoughts and not that that's like the only thing you'll ever have to work on. But that could be the missing piece.

Lacey Sites 40:29

It's so true. This season on literally, we have one of my clients, who's been a really long term client, and she has like the, you know, massive success story. She made like a million dollars in like a year initially, like just like nuts, right? And so a lot of people were that is not normal, not normal, not even close to normal. So a lot of people will come to me and be like, how did so and so do this? How did she do this? How did Sabrina get this result? And I'm like, mostly she's has the most like, rock solid mindset of anyone I've ever met kind of thing. And everyone's like, Yeah, well, there must be more to it. So we have her on the podcast this season. And I think people are both, like, very interested in simultaneously, just like very fucking disappointed. Like, there is not a secret here, you know?

Kate Kordsmeier 41:12

Totally, yes. Yeah, everyone thinks that there's going to be some, like, somebody can come in, and I've fallen into this trap to like and rescue you or save your business or like, you're just going to learn this one secret formula, and it's going to change everything. And this was not not true.

Lacey Sites 41:32

The thing I know, it's so depressing, but it's like, just not a thing. Now. And I know,

Kate Kordsmeier 41:37

I understand why people can go down there, like, that is so depressing, right? I like but what if your thought was actually, you know, like, wait a minute, there's no one right way I can figure out what feels good to me. And like, if I'm managing my mind through this process, like, that's the secret, if there's going to be a secret. It's just like knowing how to manage your mind.

Lacey Sites 42:00

It's so funny. I so agree with you, though. The thing that I always say to my clients is like, the one secret to success is not believing that everyone's hiding a secret from you. Yes, right. And it's the same thing. It's like, you just change your thought about that. Like, if I constantly hold the thought everyone knows something I don't like, my business can be a reflection of that, you know,

Kate Kordsmeier 42:20

sadly, I know when people will always say like, Well, should I do this? Or should I do that? And I've started to saying, like, everything works like how to grow a business without social media. If you want to be on social media, I can find a billion examples of people who are making great money and loving it. Being on social media all day. That is not me. If you don't want that either, like, there is a strategy for that. But it is not the strategy. Like there is no one strategy

Lacey Sites 42:51

100% will even like what what you do is like the opposite of what other people would say, which is like, you can't build a business not being on social media. And you're like, well, actually, you just can so like, it all works, you know, I think it's so helpful to hear that it's just, it just puts the power back on us as the business owner and sometimes that's you know, feels overwhelming, but it's like the best place to operate.

Kate Kordsmeier 43:13

It totally and just like giving yourself permission to that like it's your business so you get to decide and do whatever you want and it literally does not matter what anybody else is doing.

Lacey Sites 43:25

Yep 100%

Kate Kordsmeier 43:27

So good. Okay, we are coming up on the end here. So we always do a little lightning round with our guests. So just quick whatever comes first your mind. Okay, what is your favorite way to make time for self care?

Lacey Sites 43:40

Well lately since I have well I guess he's not new anymore ish, but he still feels very new. I have a almost 10 month old and so one of the things that I've like let myself do that I've tried to be really intentional about is like do self care when our nanny is here so it's like so tempting to be like Oh, I'm just supposed to like work when she's here and whatever and I like really tried to be like nope what I can do is while she's here is self care and then if my like had been had to like take him later if I needed to get something done for work, I could do that. And so it's just been like really permission giving to be like, Nope, this can be at that time for

Kate Kordsmeier 44:14

Yes, I love that. What is one tool or strategy you use to help with time management?

Lacey Sites 44:20

I just use Google Calendar and I put like everything in it like not just like my appointments but like I want to add a to do list task or something like that. And that helps

Kate Kordsmeier 44:29

me a lot. Are you the kind of person who has like every hour of your day accounted for or do you have like blocks in there you're like I'm not really sure what I'm going to do during this time but something a little

Lacey Sites 44:41

bit of both like I lean toward more accounted for though like I definitely have some like Wait safe blocks and stuff. But more often than not, it's like I want to know what I'm doing because I know that I'm going to like actually do the thing versus spend a half an hour trying to decide what I'm doing.

Kate Kordsmeier 44:56

Yes, there's so how much time goes into looking at your To Do lists. Hang on, what should I do? Not

Lacey Sites 45:02

exactly. Yeah, so

Kate Kordsmeier 45:03

true. I recently started calendaring very differently. And just one example of this is, I have a team. So I'm always like, there's always something for me to review or give the like, final check on. And it felt like every day I was spending hours or at least an hour, scattered looking at things. And so recently, I was like, Wednesdays at 1pm, I'm reviewing your work, put it in my click up task. If it's not there, I will not see it. And you'll have to wait until the next week. And like, Yeah, this is when I'm doing it. And like, now I only spend an hour reviewing everything. I'm so weak, and it's just been so amazing. So, like having things more accounted for I was very resistant. At first I'm like, I want to be the free entrepreneur who just gets to do what I feel like in the moment. And like, yeah, that's how you end up at the end of the day, wondering where your time went and why you didn't get done any of the things that are important to

Lacey Sites 46:02

you. Totally, and that's not freedom. You know what I mean? Like freedom is like, I got my shit done. I can go do what I want.

Kate Kordsmeier 46:09

Badly. Yeah. So I had to change my mindset. They were going again, what was that? Yeah. Okay, what is one of the most powerful business or mindset books that you've ever read? Just one you reference again and again.

Lacey Sites 46:21

I actually read it recently. It's called unbound by Catia or Brainiac, I think is how you say that. But I've recommended it to like, I don't know 10 clients recently of so so good, definitely more mindset that really fantastic book.

Kate Kordsmeier 46:37

It's like business specific or just kind of mindset in general mindset in general. But speaking of mindset, do you have a favorite thought or mantra affirmation, something that you're telling yourself lately?

Lacey Sites 46:52

Yes, my leg go to for years has always been everything always works out perfectly. For me. That is my like, my chance.

Kate Kordsmeier 47:01

So good. And like how good does it feel on moments when it feels like things are not working out for you to be like, Nope, I can't see it now. But everything always works out perfectly for me.

Lacey Sites 47:11

Yes. 2022 with like, a very hard year for me personally. And that mantra, like carried me through like so many things. Just it lightened the burden of so many things.

Kate Kordsmeier 47:20

Yeah, I love it. Thank you for sharing that. Okay, last question is what does Success with Soul mean to you?

Lacey Sites 47:28

I'm gonna try to be very short. But when I used to work in the nonprofit space, I kind of had like the dream job at like a very young age. And I would drive to work every day and be like, is this all there is and I was like, look at people in the cars next to me and be like, I think I'm supposed to feel different than I do. I think I got all the things I wanted. And I do not feel good. Like is this all there is? And do you guys feel this way too? And so like for me that that version of Success with Soul now it's just like never asking myself that question anymore.

Kate Kordsmeier 47:58

Yeah, so good. Thank you so much for being here. Lacey. This has been amazing, very eye opening. Thank you for inspiring me. I have one client doing revenue share right now as a tech. Super fun. So we'll see what it leads to. But I was very inspired by you. So this has been great. Thank you. Amazing.

Lacey Sites 48:16

Oh my gosh, that makes me so happy. Keep me posted on that. And thank you so much for having me.

Kate Kordsmeier 48:21

And just quickly tell everybody where they can find you.

Lacey Sites 48:24

Yes. My podcast is called literally, Rob Lowe also started a podcast after me called literally so I'm probably like, two down if you searched. But it is called literally and my website is a lead up life.com Okay, awesome. Thanks, Lacey. Thank you.

Kate Kordsmeier 48:44

I hope you've been inspired by this episode and feel ready to take action on your dreams and goals. If so, please hit subscribe. This makes it possible for me to continue to provide free helpful content and bring you amazing guests. Just go to iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe so that you know when we released a new episode, and you never miss a thing. Plus, we often put timely opportunities in our shows. So if you don't subscribe, you might miss something valuable

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