064: Can You Really Practice Conscious Capitalism? with Lauren Elizabeth

Kate Kordsmeier 0:00

Well, we are back at it with another controversial episode of the Success with Soul podcast. I'm your host, Kate Kordsmeier. And today we are talking all things patriarchy, capitalism, feminism, social justice, environmentalism, and more. If you're wondering why I'm bringing politics into business, this is an episode that you'll probably want to listen to. And if you're excited that I'm bringing politics into business, this is an episode you'll want to listen to. I've got Lauren Elizabeth here with me today. She's a radical courage coach and feminine business mentor, who helps coaches healers and creatives own their unique brilliance and build online businesses aligned with their vision and values without replicating systems of harm and oppression. Get ready. It's a good one. It's so juicy. Let's do it. You're listening to the Success with Soul podcast with Kate Kordsmeier ex journalists turned CEO of a multi six figure blog in online business. But it wasn't that long ago that Kate was a struggling entrepreneur who lacked confidence, clarity, and let's be honest money. But all those failures, experiments and lessons learned helped Kate create a thriving business that impacts 1000s and brings freedom, flexibility and fulfillment to her life. If you're ready to do the same and make something happen with holistic, soulful, step by step strategies from Kate and other experts, you're in the right place. here's your host, writer, educator, Mom, recovering perfectionist, bookworm, and sushi connoisseur, Kate Kordsmeier. Hey, Lauren, welcome to Success with Soul. Hi, Kate, thanks for having me. I am so excited for our conversation today. I was referred to you by a friend actually somebody who's been on the podcast as well. And when I went to your website, I just immediately was like, Oh, my God, I have to have her on the show. And I've been looking forward to our conversation so much we you know, booked out pretty far in advance. So it's been something I've been eagerly awaiting. And you know, we've been talking a lot more about things like the patriarchy and white supremacy and some of those more uncomfortable, but so important conversations. And I know today's gonna be a really juicy episode.

Lauren Elizabeth 2:20

Yeah, I'm really excited as well. I feel like I looked at when we booked and it was only in March. I feel Yeah, it feels like long ago.

Kate Kordsmeier 2:29

Yes,

Lauren Elizabeth 2:29

I guess it was like almost two months ago. But still, it feels like pandemic is just like such a time warp. Yeah, well, and

Kate Kordsmeier 2:37

my podcast copywriter who helps me with outlines and writing, you know, show notes and all that stuff. I have a note from her here that says, Oh my God, have you seen her website? Her homepage is so bold. I love that she uses the word fuck definitely seems like she embodies radical courage.

Lauren Elizabeth 2:53

Oh, yay, yeah, my headline is like, You're fucking brilliant. Yeah. And I went back and forth. And of course, my parents are like, I don't think that should be Yeah, like, then I'm just like, if people have a problem with the F bomb, they probably don't want to work with a mentor. Because it's like one of my power words.

Kate Kordsmeier 3:12

Same, you know, and it's so funny. My son is two and a half. And I just found out this week that he has been cursing at school a little bit. And I was thinking, Oh, my God, I've said the F word so many times in front of him. I'm a terrible Mother, what have I done? And then it turned out, it was like, basically a made up curse word that. I mean, it's kind of funny, but I was just thinking like, Yeah, I just feel like I don't think I could live without the effort.

Lauren Elizabeth 3:41

It's, I feel like there's a lot of power in it. Actually, my high school freshman English, in high school teacher, she went to Cal Berkeley, and was an English major. And her thesis was on the workbook, and how it's like one of the most versatile words in the English language. And I think there's a lot of power in it. Some people don't agree with me. Yeah, I

Kate Kordsmeier 4:03

know, my parents would be like, horrified to hear me say this, but just like, Well, you know what, it's me. And I have the same thing. Like whether it's saying like, okay, maybe you don't be so bold or don't come out and like, be so opinionated or things like that. Or I have even recently, my dad said, you know, you really speak only to women. Maybe you should speak to men too. And your sales might go up because you'd have a larger audience. And I'm like, I don't think you'd get me and marketing.

Lauren Elizabeth 4:35

Yeah, I know. They're, I think that when people get into business, their initial thought is like, Oh, I need to cast a really wide net. And like, I need to make myself like as approachable to as many people as possible. And I think if you're like Target, or you know, Macy's, right, maybe that is true. But even those companies have a an audience and how Good

Kate Kordsmeier 5:00

facts aren't targeting the same people.

Lauren Elizabeth 5:03

Right? Exactly. Yeah. And my audience uses the word fuck. And so I put it right on my read on my website so that people can see that I'm there people.

Kate Kordsmeier 5:12

That's right. Okay. Well, I love it. It's a good lesson and being you and attracting the right people and intentionally repelling the people that are like, there's, it's okay, if you're not for me, but now we know. Yeah, definitely. Okay, so I love that you're kind of title, so to speak, is feminist business mentor, which I feel like is so powerful in itself, too. And like I said, we've talked about the patriarchy before on the podcast, we've had several episodes recently, especially. But for anyone who isn't familiar if this is your first time tuning in, how do you define the patriarchy?

Lauren Elizabeth 5:51

Hmm, yeah. So thank you for asking this question. I think that when people see that I'm a feminist business mentor, or they, when I say like, you know, we're here to smash the patriarchy. They think that I hate men. And it's quite the opposite. I do not hate men. When I define the patriarchy, what I'm talking about is a system. It's not an individual person. It is a structural system that teaches us to accept authority to stay sort of in our very small prescribed lane. And that really is about centralizing power to particularly sis white men. And it's very much like a pyramid scheme in that there is like sort of these like points of ultimate power, right in the United States, like the president is like the ultimate patriarch, right? And if you go to the UK, right, the while we have a queen, there's a queen over there. But like, the idea is that the king is the ultimate patriarchy. Yeah. And the way that I see it, is that like, it's not like there are law. I mean, yes, the laws and the the sort of governmental systems are in place to prioritize the needs of men, and specifically white men in this in this country. But it's more than just the laws, right? It's cultural, we are taught like not to question our parents, we're taught to, one of the things that I that I was actually just talking about yesterday is how like, we're not supposed to be selfish, we're not supposed to put ourselves first and specifically women are taught to give fully of themselves, and to just pour into their families, their friends, their communities, and are really taught that like putting themselves first is selfish and is bad. And so I think this is kind of like looping back around the patriarchy is a system. It's a cultural system, it is definitely woven into our government. But ultimately, it's about control. And I don't really even think that the patriarchy is all about, like uplifting all men, I actually think it's about like, uplifting, very specific men. And if there is a structure in place, then those specific people who are hoarding power, really only have to control the white men. And then those white men can assert their power to the people who are in relationship with them. And it's really this, like trickle down effect of hoarding power. So I feel like that was kind of like a spiral, which, you know, yeah, how I, how I work?

Kate Kordsmeier 8:28

Yeah. Well, it's, it's really interesting. I totally agree. Like, I think when the patriarchy and feminist and words like that can be triggering to people, and even to women. And I think we're sometimes like too afraid to even look at what that might mean for us because of what it could actually start to unravel in our own lives. But that being said, I feel like there is also this misconception that if you are feminist, or if you are trying to smash the patriarchy, or talking about dismantling white supremacy, and you know, other forms of systems of oppression, people always like you're just like a man hater. And, like, it's not about that. And as you said, I don't actually believe that the patriarchy is really serving most men because it's these very narrow definitions of gender and of what power who should be in power, you know, no vulnerability, no weakness, no emotions, like it's denying us, men included of the complete human experience. So I'm glad that you made that distinction. And the other thing you said reminds me I just read this awesome book called burnout. I don't know if you've heard of it, but

Lauren Elizabeth 9:38

this book has come up like five times in the last 36 hours.

Kate Kordsmeier 9:42

Oh my gosh, so funny.

Lauren Elizabeth 9:43

I haven't I haven't read it yet. It's on my like, I've like, read a lot about them. And I think they were on the Bernie brown

Kate Kordsmeier 9:50

podcast. Oh, good. I have to listen to that because I get another Bernie fan as well, but they talk about in this book, this thing called human giver syndrome, and Basically what you just defined as like women in particular are taught to give everything we have a way to everybody else, leaving nothing for ourselves. And that any time we, you know, feel like even just talking about like self care or putting yourself first in one small way, that it's like, it's the patriarchy, it's that system. That's like, you can't do that, because you got to give everything.

Lauren Elizabeth 10:25

Yeah, absolutely. And I think I do want to just make a quick distinction around when I'm talking about feminism, this kind of goes back to like being a man hater, or like being only about women's rights. Right, right. And we know that like, gender is a spectrum. And I've talked about this pretty like at length in my content, but my definition of feminism is about creating a world where all people have like equitable access to self expression, to agency to joy, to freedom to pleasure, you know, I'm not opposed to the fact that like, maybe there's space for a little bit of language shifting around what it what feminism is, right? Or maybe even that word will evolve. For now, the people that I have been learning from, are holding down this reality that feminism isn't just about women's rights, it's really about the sort of deconstructing the patriarchy. And like what we just said, patriarchy isn't just about men's rights, right, patriarchy is about funneling power to very specific people. And my version of feminism is about deconstructing that. Yeah. And bringing us to a place where all people can give and receive in a way that is equitable in a way that serves them, and in a way that really uplifts all of us. And I just wanted to make that distinction, because I think you're right that the word feminism is triggering, and sometimes even just confusing, even for women.

Kate Kordsmeier 11:51

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Thank you for making that distinction. And while we're on the subject of kind of definitions, there's something else I'm excited to talk with you about to where you talk about the capitalist routine. And I'm wondering if you can explain what that means as well kind of fits in with what we're talking about.

Lauren Elizabeth 12:07

Yeah, definitely. So I talked about being anti capitalist, which I think is really confusing for people who are business owners, and especially for people who are like looking at me, who is a business owner, who helps other business owners. And so the capitalist thing about capitalism, is that there's a lot of, sort of, like romanticism around it, the fact that like capitalism is sort of seen as the opposite of communism, which we have seen, in many situations, not not be very effective and be quite harmful for a lot of different communities. So isn't our communism caught? We've seen communism be very hard. Yeah. And so we see capitalism as this opposite, right? And what we are also learning is that binaries actually don't exist. And so when I talk about the capitalist routine, what I'm talking about is like kind of what we were just talking about being like human giver syndrome, right? It's this system, right? capitalism is a system of extraction of maximizing profits, whatever the cost. Yeah. And it's really like, just woven into every aspect of our society, we're taught, like, how can we maximize our productivity? How can we maximize our profits? How can we limit the the expenses, right? And so I think of like, just the most basic example of like, capitalism, is how we can go to McDonald's and buy a burger for what 99 cents, and the government has subsidized that so that we can get that burger for 99 cents, the burger should cost us $12. It really should. And so if the sort of romantic capitalism, where it's a free market where everyone's getting paid, based on the work that they put in, and everyone can sort of pull themselves up by their bootstraps, we should be paying $12 for that burger. But we're not because it's been subsidized. And so what happens is that certain people are actually getting paid what they deserve. But the people who work at McDonald's, right, the employees, the people who are serving that burger, are still putting in high level of work. But because that burgers only 99 cents, they're actually not able to be paid what the people who are, you know, being subsidized by the government, with this for the beef. And so that's kind of like a roundabout example. But basically, the the issue with the capitalist routine, is that it's that same thing of patriarchy, certain people are extracting really high, high value, certain people are getting a lot of the resources and the people who are actually doing the labor. So anyone in the workforce is essentially not able to access that level of wealth. That level of resources. And it keeps us in this loop of always trying to work harder, always trying to like, oh, if I could just work, I'm sure you've heard this, like, if there were just 36 hours that day, right? If there was just a few more hours in the day, I could like, work a 14 hour shift and still get sleep. And then maybe at you know, $20 an hour, I could maybe someday buy a house. And there's this loop of like, how productive can we be? How much can I extract? And it kind of is, it's really heartbreaking for me, because I see really good people who have really good intentions, replicating the system. And there's a culture, especially in the online space of hiring people in other countries to do our admin and paying them $4 an hour. And it's like, oh, but they're the living wage, there is 350. So $4 now or is like, actually 50 cents above you with that, right? And like, I've actually worked with people in Singapore, and in Bangladesh, and they're like, actually, no, like, that's a mess. Sure, like the living wage is like, if you look at the average living wage, but how many of those people are living in what we would consider poverty? Exactly. And so I just, I just when I, this is like a long answer off the cuff, that's okay. But the Capitol's routine is this process or the system, where we give ourselves permission to overwork ourselves to overwork the people who support us in doing our work, and we prioritize profit over everything else. And I also talk about this business as usual paradigm. And that is sort of capitalism is like a system, the business as usual paradigm or like the practices, they're like, the actual things, the different things that we're doing, specifically in the online space, which is where most of the people that I work with are building online businesses, it's again, that that sort of driver to maximize our profits, even if it means hiring someone for below the living wage, or spiritually bypassing, because it's an effective way of selling, or culturally appropriating because it's trendy. And so it's like, all of these things have been accepted and have been normalized. And they're not good for us. Even the person who is profiting off of these practices, at the end of the day that those profits are like contributing to an illusion of power. And,

Kate Kordsmeier 17:45

yeah, it feels like it's like bankrupting our soul in the process. And yes, yes, you might have all the money, but I feel like most people still feel empty at the end. And right. Yeah, that explains why I mean, there's a reason why the cliche of like money can't buy happiness is exists, because it's like, what we've been taught that it can but what we've seen over and over and over again, is that no matter how much money you have, you're still it's not a guarantee of being happy or not. Yeah, I love what you shared about, we've been taught that everything is binary, but in fact, binaries don't exist. And I think that's exactly like what the patriarchy does is that it teaches us it's either yes, or no black or white, on or off, you know, everything is either or. And, in fact, in reality, there's so much both and that exists. And yes, trying to say, you know, I've even had this conversation, I have a great friend who we have often uncomfortable conversations with where we can admit to each other, like, people are talking about us, I don't really know what it means, like, Can you help me and so one thing she asked me recently was, you said toxic capitalism and in recent email, like, what do you actually mean by that? Because I'm sure you're not against capitalism. And I'm like, No, but there's nuance to everything. And I don't think you can be too much of anything, I think is generally speaking, not good for us. Even vitamins that you can overdose on vitamins even water. Yeah, you can be exactly clean water. Exactly. So I feel like it's this hyper, you know, hyper masculinity, hyper capitalism, where it's like, like you said, its profit over people, its profit at all costs, that that's more but at least that was my definition. When she asked me it was like, No, I think it's Yes, I'm pro capitalism. I'm pro making money and, you know, giving people opportunities and, and all of that, but to a point, and there's, there's nuance in there. So, do you believe there's such a thing as ethical or conscious capitalism?

Lauren Elizabeth 19:50

I think that in definition, there is a potential for ethical capitalism. I don't think that the way we We are currently operating. It's kind of how we're calling for the abolition of police, and how, what we're when we say abolish police, we're not saying we don't want anyone to help us take care of our communities, what we're saying is the current system is so toxic, that there is no reform, we need to scrap it and go to the drawing board, maybe go to the drawing board. And then like, abolish, when we have a new plan, I'm still learning about abolition. And so I don't want to like speak too much about that. But my feelings on capitalism is that the way we currently see it, in practice is incredibly toxic. And that the fact that we have billionaires, lots of billionaires actually, then people who work for those billionaires can't afford their medications can't afford rent, can't put food on the table. That is unacceptable to me. I want to say that like I'm not against profits, I'm not against to building wealth and having resources and treating ourselves to a fun weekend where we go get pedicures, and I'm not I'm not against all of that. I think that we can do that without manipulating and extracting and oppressing the people who help us get there. And so when it comes to ethical capitalism or conscious capitalism, I'm really weary of that because I think that the way we see it practice we've gone so far away from this like definition of like a free market where anyone can make money to like really, it's we've gone to this far extreme where like anyone can make money as long as the people underneath them are working for poverty wages, and I feel like we have I don't know that the process to like move towards an ethical capitalism on a large scale. I don't know that we have time for that.

Kate Kordsmeier 22:00

Yeah, interesting.

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Lauren Elizabeth 24:08

I just define politics is like the way we do life together. Yeah. Yeah.

Kate Kordsmeier 24:12

So okay, so why do you feel like business and politics belong together? Because there's a lot of people I'm sure even some that are listening that are like, why are we talking about the patriarchy and capitalism and free markets? I mean, it is a business podcast, but it probably seems a little odd. Sure.

Lauren Elizabeth 24:30

Yeah. I think that's a great question. I talk a lot about business and politics. And when I say politics, I'm not talking about like, partisan politics. And while that definitely plays a part of it, right, there is like a conversation around republican democrat, you know, who's in the White House who's in Congress. But the reason why I think politics and business are so important, like First of all, I just want to acknowledge that I do define politics is like the way we do life together, right, the way that the people do life together and So to me, whether or not single use plastic is normal part of our culture is a political conversation. Whether or not a $7 minimum wage is acceptable is a political conversation. And the places where we see those cultural norms changing is in our businesses. And I think especially for folks who are, you know, do have a small business, and when I say small business, I'm talking about, like, less than 50 employees. That's where we can make so much change. You know, it wasn't like all of the sudden target and grocery stores across the like, you know, corporate grocery stores across the country stopped using plastic. No, we saw some really small co Ops, stop using plastic we saw small, yeah, just companies really across industries, going to more sustainable packaging. And when these larger corporations saw that this shift was not only like good for the planet, but it was also like possible to make to still make money using this model, then we started to see these larger shifts. And now we see companies like Starbucks and McDonald's coming together to figure out okay, how can we create a compostable cup. And I'm sure folks, again, I'm like not, my background is not in environmental studies. But I've seen the pictures of the garbage Island floating in the ocean. And I have been to India where there is no recycling, you know, different parts of India where there's zero recycling process. And those people have no options, but to just dump the trash in the valley near their town. And if we can create compostable cups, if we can stop creating single use plastics, if we can lift the global minimum wage so that people can afford to feed themselves to get the medications that they need to thrive, then like why would we not create that? And I think that businesses have to lead the way, because we aren't we do live in a largely, you know, globally, obviously, not everybody runs on a capitalist system. But it's pretty largely a capitalist economy on a global scale. And so because capitalism is the sort of main thread that we see running through most of our global economies, I think that we have to think about how can we as business owners, whether we are solopreneurs, just doing it on our own, or we have a small team, or we have a big team, we have to be thinking about how can we make our work more sustainable, more equitable? And how can we, you know, I talked about, you might have heard of the three P's or if you're listening, you might have heard about a three p bottom line, which is where we think about profits, people and the planet. And that is like a great place for us to be starting to think about the way we run our businesses like what is the impact of my work on the planet? How does my work impact the people that I work with, but also the people that are in my community? And then how do I make a profit doing that? I like to add a fourth p, which is about pleasure. And it's like, how can we create something that feels good? How can we create a business that not only, you know, centers, the planet centers, the people makes us a profit. But also, this goes back to what we were saying, the beginning of the recording around our souls being bankrupt, because we even though we have lots of money, but if like we build businesses that are sustained truly sustainable, we also have to be creating businesses that allow us to thrive again. There's that spiral that I go through. But I think when we talk about business and politics, what we have to be thinking about is like how are our businesses impacting the people? How are our businesses improving the way that we do life with our communities? And I just I just think that business and politics are inherently connected. And a lot of people disagree with me, but I will probably stay that's that's where I'm like, putting my stake in the ground. Right? Yeah. Wow.

Kate Kordsmeier 29:23

So many good things in there. One thing that came up for me when you're talking about kind of it starts with corporations. And this is something I've been really trying to unlearn diet culture and which is just another system of oppression. Yes. And one of the things that has come up Christy Harrison is somebody she wrote the book called anti diet, and she has an amazing podcast called food psych. And I've been listening to just completely bingeing her her podcast lately and she talks about how even just looking at this from like a food standpoint that we could say I'm not going to eat meat anymore because meat is a, you know, is a big greenhouse gas emissions are largely attributed to raising animals, or Oh, I'm not going to like I'm not going to use Ziploc bags anymore. All these things that are really great things for us to do individually. But that the vast majority, and I'm not going to get the stat, right, because I don't remember, I'm terrible with numbers, but it's like, well over 70% of greenhouse gas emissions and things that are harming the planet come from corporations, not from the individual. So while it might make you feel good that you're like doing your part, and I've even been guilty of telling people like vote with your dollars, it's like you as an individual can't reverse this. But if we start going to the corporations and saying, hey, McDonald's, you got to start using compostable cups, you we've got to change your farming practices of where you're getting your beef. That's what's going to make, you know the biggest difference. And so I just kept thinking about that when you were talking about, yeah, starting with corporations. And I don't think it like should let us off the hook of making conscious individual decisions. But I think it also kind of releases the pressure and shows us where to focus just like in our business. And we have to figure out what are the things we're doing that actually move the needle? It's like, is your use of not using Ziploc bags anymore really going to cut down on all of the pollution and the issues that we're having with the environment and global warming and everything? Or is it better that we go to the Ziploc manufacturer and figure out something there?

Lauren Elizabeth 31:41

Right, yeah. Oh, wow, this brought up so much for me. First of all, I also tell people vote with their dollars, money is power in our in the system that we live in. And so I think we should be voting with our we can we can vote with our dollar. And, you know, I was vegan for years, for political reasons, largely, and I'm not a vegan anymore. And people might, there might be vegans who are listening who are like, what the hell? But I'm, I'm not a vegan anymore. But what I realized is that this pressure on individuals to take the responsibility of these global issues, not only is it like, my decisions aren't going to change the world. I do believe that like, right, like little like little grains of sand, ultimately create mass. And that like, Yes, we should be making decisions that move us towards justice, that move us towards freedom that move us towards collective power. And when we take responsibility, we are letting the corporation's off the hook, right? And we and it's sort of like this thing of like, they talk about how when we post on social media about like good deeds that we've done, it sort of like gives us that serotonin hit of like, oh, we're good people. And so it's sort of like, lets us off the hook of like, maintaining that activity of like doing good deeds. And I think it's the same thing is like when we take responsibility over these large issues of injustice, or unsustainable practices, or really trying to, like do our best to create change than it like almost that energy is being used to navigate our own world in a in a system that's not set up for us to live that way, rather than using our energy to hold corporations accountable. Right. And I want to bring this back to small businesses, because a lot of people I work with are not corporations. And I think the way that we we have to model that in small businesses, because the corporations have, in their minds a lot more to lose on the profit scale. Yeah. And so if they can see that small businesses are being successful, and not using single use plastics, or paying a living wage to their employees, and still making a profit, that's when they see that happening. Corporations are paying attention to what is happening at all levels of business. And when we can lead in a way that centers sustainability when we can lead in a way that centers, the well being of people. We are actually setting an example for these larger corporations. Yeah, I just think that we definitely individually have a responsibility to right there's a supply and demand piece here. Right? If we and we've seen it happen, right like 10 years ago, your options were dairy milk or soy milk. But now there's like 50 plant milks, you know, and it's funny right now I have dairy milk in my fridge, and I think this is the first time in probably 10 years that I have had dairy milk in my world. I just like needed it for a recipe and I mostly use like oat milk or or almond milk. Not because I, I mean, partially because I'm like, not really down with the dairy industry, but largely because like, I just prefer almond milk. But because we have those options, right? Because small companies, or what started is really small companies gave us those options. Now it's mainstream, right. And my husband and I were actually talking the other day about like becoming a sellout. And that culture of like, oh, like, you've become so big that you've like, sold out. And I think that like, in certain instances, that kind of sucks, especially for like early adopters who feel like they were kind of special. But ultimately, like, we want things like non dairy milk to sell out. We want things like black women becoming millionaires, we want that to be a movement that is mainstream, right? Right. When it comes to the way that we show up as individuals, the way we show up as small businesses, I think that we should be modeling. And I try not to say shirts, but I'm going to say it here because I think that like, I really do believe this, we should be modeling the kind of behaviors and we should be leading and living into the kind of world that we want to be co creating for future generations, because corporations are paying attention. And they do have, you know, I said money is power. You look at the companies that have the largest annual revenue, and they really are contributing to the culture that we live in. Right. And I just think that the more we can demand individually and small bit like from our small businesses, the more that we can demand sustainable practices become normalized. The less corporations have an excuse to just like keep doing things business as usual. Right,

Kate Kordsmeier 36:45

right. Okay, so I love this. Let's bring it kind of back now to like super small businesses, because most of the people listening and myself included, we're talking about teams of like, five or less generalist? Sure. So how do we own our unique brilliance and build our feminist business without perpetuating that capitalist routine? What are feminist business practices?

Lauren Elizabeth 37:09

Yeah, that's a great question. I want to say that, like, I am learning about this, also, I think that culture is evolving, always. And so just like certain phrases, maybe five years ago, were fine to say. And now it's like, oh, we actually don't say that anymore. It's not because like, all of a sudden, we have like awoken to the injustice. It's like, actually, culture is shifting. And so I want to say first and foremost that like, it's not a box that we check off. And I know that truly love Ron talked about this on one of your episodes about like, anti racism, not being a box that we can check off. It's the same thing with our feminist business practices. But what I will say is that my definition of feminism is about creating environments and communities where all people can thrive. And so that's a great place to start is to ask yourself, Am I thriving in my business? Maybe my clients are doing excellent. Maybe my business manager is feeling so good. Maybe she's getting paid high dollar more than she's ever been paid before. Maybe everyone around me is thriving, but maybe I'm not. What needs to change so that I can also be thriving. And so I think that's sort of the first step is like, how do we make sure that everyone in our business, including ourselves is flourishing? Yeah. And it's not, again, not a box that we check. Right? That's, that's a process. But just like some really simple, sort of, like, I guess, if we are looking for boxes to check, I would say, you know, checking in with those four Ps that I was talking about earlier, is a great way to kind of bring some of this feminist values into our businesses, like, Am I making a profit, right? Because profit at the end of the day is about, like, that's what business is about. So like, Am I making enough money to pay myself and to pay my employees, even if it's just a few of them, and to like, also give back into my community and to reinvest in the people who are sort of paying me to do this work? Also, like, how is my impact on the planet, right? Like, if you are a product run company, like, Is there any way you can shift your packaging? is can you offset the cost or the impact of shipping your products across the world? This again, when we go to so profits? Are we making money in a way that sustains us but isn't extractive right planet? Where can I make sure that I'm reducing my carbon footprint? People? Do my people feel safe to ask for a day off when they need it? Do my people feel like They are getting compensated fairly for the work that they're doing. Right. I just recently saw Channing Nicholas who was my like favorite astrologer just sent out an email to her newsletter basically saying, like we're hiring. Here's the benefits that you get if you work with us, and it was unlimited menstrual leave a personal development stipend, there was a long list of benefits. I was like, Damn, I want that job. And then pretty quickly was like, actually what I really want us to be able to offer that right. And so when you're offering unlimited menstrual leave, unlimited time off, personal development stipends, health insurance 401k, when you're offering that, that's cutting into profit.

But that means that your people are so supported. And then in like, the sort of practical side of that is that there's not going to be a lot of turnover, because people are happy working with you, right. And so I just talked about profits and pleasure, or people planet. And the last one is pleasure, right? And it comes back to like, what feels good. If hosting 100 person live course, is exhausting for you, like, maybe shift your strategy. If, you know, working eight days a week, doesn't feel good. Maybe shift your strategy. And it's it's really about these like small shifts. And one thing I do just want to share when we're talking about feminist business, is when it comes to sales and marketing. The biggest thing for me is like how can we in this kind of like, like, hop, skip and jump from what we were just talking about? But like, how can we prioritize consent in all levels of our business? And this is a feminist issue, because how often are women not given the option women and really all people not given the option to consent to being givers to consent to being sold to to consent on so many levels. And so if you're just looking for one quick way to make a shift in your business, to move more towards an equitable, Justice centered feminist lens, just start prioritizing consent. And that can look like before you send out an email sequence, marketing a new product, just like send an email, hey, I'm about to share this cool new offering. If you don't want to receive these emails, you can opt out here or in our marketing in our like, you know, in our sales calls, asking people, are you okay with me sharing this offering, I think is going to be really good fit for you. Right, just like giving people that option to say like, actually, you know what, I'm okay, I think this isn't, this isn't really what I want. And it kind of goes against all of the things we've been taught about marketing, right? We're supposed to like sort of slip in the sale, we're supposed to manipulate people with shame and blame and guilt, to get them to purchase. But especially if you are in personal development or in healing, or, yeah, if you're in this realm of like, helping people feel better, using manipulation tactics, using scarcity using false authority to coerce them into purchasing is actually making more work for you and is the antithesis of what you're trying to offer. And so yeah, there's a I like the four P's checking in, like, is this profitable? Is this helping the planet? Is this making sure my people are good? And does it feel good? Is it pleasurable? That's one sort of checklist that I go through. And then just like really centering consent, in that we show up in our work.

Kate Kordsmeier 43:47

Yeah, I think the consent piece is so interesting, and, you know, goes hand in hand, like you said, with kind of these manipulative sales tactics that we've all been taught. And I think what is really interesting is that, you know, I've, I've heard clients in my own students in my group, say things like, but if I give them an opt out, then what if everybody takes it? And what I've actually found when I started implementing this, is that more people didn't unsubscribe, like we had less unsubscribes and I think it was because they felt like I was given the choice and it felt good to them to see Oh, she's about to sell me something and I don't want it. I can just tell her No thanks. And she won't talk to me about it again. And it's like I think fewer people than you think take the option even if they're actually not interested. Because they're like oh I was given the choice and she was honest and transparent and upfront about it. So not to then make this like its own like reverse manipulation of like, if you do this, your profits will actually go up but I feel like in practice that has actually been what I've seen. I have sold

Lauren Elizabeth 44:56

high dollar packages from My consent email, yeah, interesting when I send the email that says like, Hey, I'm really excited I launching this new product or this new offering, sorry, my earbuds are falling out of my head. I'm launching this new coaching container or I'm launching this new trading program, you can find out all the information here. If you know that this is not a good fit for you right now. Or if you aren't interested in receiving more information about this, click here. And I'll make sure not to send you any more emails about this particular offer. I do get people who opt out of that. And often I find in those sales sequences, I like what you were just saying, I don't get as many unsubscribes because people have the option. And I've also had people email me saying like, I love this. Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity. I want to learn from you. Mm hmm. Yeah. And they, and they book. Yeah. And it's like, you know, again, the point is not to manipulate people. And so we want to make sure that like, we're,

Kate Kordsmeier 46:01

we're doing it because we want the consent to be there. Like the intention is to give people choice. But the bonus is when you start doing things in a non slimy way. You actually start attracting people even more to you and right, yeah, absolutely.

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Lauren Elizabeth 49:12

10 years ago, or 20 years ago, we didn't have access to the level of information that we have now, a lot of our clients, especially if you are working with people who are also in business, where we all know the tricks, right, right. We've all we've all used them or had them used against us, or we've been in a training course or they taught us how to do that. And our gut went on No way. I'm not going to do that. So we are all way more aware than we were right 10 1520 years ago. So those tactics actually don't work anymore, not in the way that they used to. And I just think it's really interesting. I was on a podcast a few months ago and the woman who was interviewing me her husband is a psychology researcher, and she shared with me that like most like large funded psychology research initiatives that have gone down in the last, like 25 years have all been about how to effectively market to people. And they're all about how can we effectively manipulate people into purchasing? And so the way that we are understanding our brains these days is how can we market to people? How can we extract profit from people. And I just want to like, for folks who are listening, I want to say that it is a little bit of trial and error, we do have to sometimes try a marketing practice that maybe hasn't been normalized yet. And maybe that means that our sales do go down a little bit. I know for myself, when I really shifted and really committed to this, I did see a little drop in my income. And that's really scary. And it was really hard. And I didn't feel like shit anymore. Like, I didn't feel like a jerk, right? I felt really good. The sales that I did get, I knew that I was an integrity. Right? Right. And so if integrity is something that you are interested in, if you value integrity, and you value the people that you are working with, and you want to feel good, when you go to bed at night, it's worth it to prioritize to consent, and to lead with vision and values rather than always pressing on pain points, right? There's, it's not always like a smooth trip to the top. And I think that that's true, even if you are using these manipulative tactics, right? It's always gonna be hard, there's always going to be a learning curve, right? We might as well learn that. And like the learning curve, might as well be like learning how to do business and integrity, right?

Kate Kordsmeier 51:50

Yeah, totally. And, you know, sometimes people are like, well, if I'm not poking at people's pain, and like highlighting where they're struggling and how I can like solve their problem, then how am I marketing? And one way that I have found is like, show them positive? what's possible? What could you know, like, there's some people. And there's, I think Jenna Kutcher actually had a podcast episode on this that was like, I'm trying to remember it was like, you're either the carrot or the, I can't remember what the analogy was. But there's two types of marketing and one is like, poke at people's pain. And one is, like, show them possibility. Give them that like, what this could be you. It's not Yeah, just like, continuing to say, I keep going back to the just like poking at somebody's pain. The other thing you shared that really resonates with me too, is this focus on pleasure and what feels good and thinking about. I mean, this is what I have done in my business a lot in the last couple of years is, you know, if you are a course creator, most of the Guru's out there are teaching you how to live launch your course, and you do it a few times a year, and I fucking hated it. It was so exhausting and depleting. I hate I don't feel like I was meeting my people where they were, that it was like you have one time a year that you can buy. And if it's not the right time for you, you should buy anyway, because otherwise, you're screwed. And you can never get in. And you know, all these things. And it just, I felt terrible. And so I switched to an evergreen funnel system instead. And now I'm like, I'm never launching again, because this feels so much better for myself and for my people. And it's less work. And it's like it was a lot of work to set up. And then I set it up, you know, over a year ago now. And it's like, it just runs in the background. And it frees me up to focus on other things that are important to me, whether that's work or personal life, I can now go to my yoga classes in the middle of a workday and take a nap and slow down when I'm on certain phases of my cycle. And that's what feels what is like what's needed. And I know you have claimed that you're also never launching again. So I love this. And I want to see if you can share more about so what's your business model these days without launching?

Lauren Elizabeth 54:06

Yeah. So a few things I want to shout out to Kelly deels, who is a feminist copywriter and actually who I have trained with what we what I'm learning about launching or what i what i what I'm kind of like unpack for myself around launching is that like the definition of launch or the energetics of the word launch is to use like all of your energy to like fight gravity and like put yourself into orbit. And I'm just like, that is exhausting. Yeah, think about how much you Yeah, think about how much fuel they have to use to get a space shuttle to like move into orbit. So much fuel. Yeah. And I'm just like, I I don't have that. And so what I have shifted to is just, I do I still do like multiple, I guess what you would call launches. But what I focused on now. It's just like I have enrollment periods, the doors open. And if you're interested Come on in. And instead of feeling like I have to, like, talk so much like, you know, there's like a three week pre launch, and then a seven day launch phase. And it's like a month of my life is just like exhausting and draining. And, you know, instead of that, I'm just like showing up in a way that feels really good all the time. Yeah.

Kate Kordsmeier 55:28

And you don't have to be selling all the time. That's the thing that I love is like, now I'm just providing free value with the podcast and other things that I'm sharing, whether it's in social, or in my emails, or on the blog, or whatever, I'm just like, here's some free value that I think might help you. And then, like, the selling part doesn't have to, I don't have to come on every day. And like, let me tell you about my course, again, are you gonna get in? Are you gonna, like, tick tock, tick tock, and I just, I can't do it.

Lauren Elizabeth 55:56

Yeah. And I think that this like launch model comes from really large organizations, right? When we see like, the Tony Robbins, or the Marie Forleo, or we see these, like, sort of celebrity coaches launching, they have multimillion dollar teams. Right, you know,

Kate Kordsmeier 56:18

they're not launching and solopreneur.

Lauren Elizabeth 56:21

Right, yeah. And so what I am, you know, I I'm very much in love with the model of just like, here are my offerings, the doors are open, when the doors are closed, you can get on the waitlist, and you'll be the first to know Yeah, and the doors are open again. And like, I'm just going to deliver value. I'm just going I mean, ultimately, the reason why I got into this work other than like really seeing some some big issues. And the way we do online business was because like I have a lot of ideas, I have a lot of thoughts about the way we can do things differently. And I want to be in dialogue about those ideas and about those new systems and new ways of doing business. I am an Aquarius son, and my north node is in Aquarius. And so it's all about like, humanitarian innovation. And like that is what a lot of what drives me. And so I like sharing content. And this feeling this like pressure to like, shove a ton of content and like make it super high value and super high pressure into like one month. Yeah, just is exhausting to me. I would way rather like take all of that content and stretch it out over the course of the year, right? Have people sort of accustomed to receiving high value from me? And then when I open the doors, my program, they're just like, yeah, I want to be a part of this. I want like more, like more value than I'm already receiving for free.

Kate Kordsmeier 57:48

Yeah, so good. So one last question on the topic of it's related to pleasure, I think but I think one of the ways that we can work in a way that feels good to us, is by something that you talk about bringing your business into alignment with your unique zone of brilliance. And we've talked before on the on the show, and I know a lot of people have read gay Hendricks book, the big leap, and he talks about the zone of genius. So is this different the zone of brilliance? Is that different than the zone of genius? Can you talk to us about that?

Lauren Elizabeth 58:20

Yeah, definitely. Thanks for bringing this up. This is something that I've been kind of in development with this like concept and this framework for a while. But so the zone of I read the big leap a couple times. It's been a while it's been a year, a couple years since I've read it, but the zone of genius, if I remember it correctly, has like, you're really good at it. And it just comes naturally to you. Is this like zone of genius? And you probably like take some there's probably some pleasure in there. Yeah, as well. And the zone of brilliance is similar in that if there is like a pleasure piece. And there is like a just sort of comes to you naturally. Your skill. But yeah, right. Yeah. So it's broken, I break it down into these four main spheres. And like I see it as sort of like a Venn diagram. And there's this like centerpiece, that is the zone of brilliance. And that centerpiece is made up of the skill set that you have developed, right. So it does include the pieces that you've worked really hard to cultivate your your unique lived experience, right? The pieces of your life that have contribute contributed to the gifts that you just naturally have your pleasure practices, the the parts of your life and the things that you do that feel really good. And I think the piece that's maybe most different from the zone of genius that gay Hendricks talks about, is this vision for social and cultural change. Right? I think all of us. Well, maybe not all of us. I think a lot of people at least the folks that I'm working with, have a vision for the kind of world that they want to create for that future. Whether that future is for their children or whether that future is for their children's children's children, right. There's sort of a biological driver in our in humans to think about at least creating For our children, and when I say our children, I'm not just talking about our bio kids. I'm talking about like the the children. Yeah. I think that if we leave out this piece of like our vision for social and cultural change, then what we're neglecting is this internal driver to build a better world and to leave the world better than it was when we came into it. Yeah. And part of that is sort of excavating and deprogramming from the capitalist routine and from the business as usual paradigm, because we've been taught to think about the world through those lenses. And so we have to deprogram a little bit from that we have to start to unpack the behaviors and the beliefs and the patterns that we've been taught, and really learn what actually what we actually want what is truly our vision, right? That's like, not a quick process. You know, I would say like, I've been very consciously doing this work of unpacking patriarchy and capitalism for the last decade. And I'm still finding areas of my life where I'm like, Oh, that's it. That's the piece. And then I'm like, Oh, wait, there's more to it. And said, your zone of brilliance is kind of it's, it's moving with you. Yeah. And also, I just want to say to folks that like, everyone's is unique, right? Everyone has something unique to contribute. And that is this, this zone of brilliance, right, is this unique contribution that you have the only you can offer in the way that you're going to offer it?

Kate Kordsmeier 1:01:36

Yeah, totally. I mean, I think it's kind of similar to having like, figuring out what your y is, but it goes beyond just kind of like I want this so that I can have, you know, financial freedom or things that are, you know, valiant efforts and like good reasons to do something. But I think it's exactly what you said, I mean, I've been self employed for 11 years now. And I've been doing what I'm doing currently for the last several years. But it really wasn't until like the end of last year that I feel like, my wife was always sort of, Oh, you know, this sort of vague idea of empowering women and kind of leveling the playing field and giving them freedom and flexibility and fulfillment, and you know, all these things that like, they sounded good, and they were true. But I feel like towards the end of last year, I really realized how important it was to me to just play whatever small part I could play in dismantling the patriarchy. And really seeing that buy in encouraging female entrepreneurship as this revolutionary act like that is what all of a sudden became, it became so clear to me, and then once that happened, I feel like it was so much more enjoyable to show up and do my work. I felt so much more connected to it, I felt more of a purpose in what I was doing. And it wasn't just like, oh, here I go launching another course again, like, you know, it was it felt so different. So I love that you incorporate that into the zone of brilliance that feels very important.

Lauren Elizabeth 1:03:05

Yeah, it was a huge shift for me as well. I think it's become really trendy to have a justice lens. And I'm actually like, not mad at that. I'm like, now let's make that a trend. Yeah. And also, I think we have to, we need to come back to this, like, what am I here for? What What is my vision? What is my purpose? Some people don't like that. But like, I do like it, I believe? Yes, I do believe that, like, we all work here, I do believe we're here for a reason. I do believe that, like, everyone has something contribute to contribute. And like, sometimes contribution is, like uncomfortable for a lot of the people that we're in community with. And sometimes that means we have to like, you know, rock the boat a little bit. But if the boat is headed towards an iceberg, which like, sorry, folks that the boat is headed towards an iceberg. To Yes, yes, we are on the Titanic. And like we have to use our energy to redirect Yeah, or there. You know, I don't want to like necessarily on this on just like the most drab note ever, but like, if we don't create change, if we don't dedicate ourselves to moving our feet, the future generations towards more freedom, more joy, more sustainability, those future generations aren't going to have a life that that's worth living. And it's like, sucks. And the sort of high note with that is that like we can create change, yeah, we can make decisions personally and in our businesses that uplift the people around us and that creates a stronger foundation for the folks who are coming after us.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:04:48

Yeah. I love it. I love thinking about like your, from it from a legacy lens and thinking like what future do I want to belong to? And, you know, how can the work continue after I'm gone? This is something That I did a lot of work with in a mastermind I was in last year with Kate Northrup. And then I actually I was redoing all of the copy for some of the emails in a funnel that I have. And at that same moment, as I was thinking about this topic, I got this email from Rachael Rogers. I mean, not personally, it was on her list, and it was called before I die. And it she kind of just bullet points out, like what she wants to accomplish before she dies. And so I thought, I'm going to, I'm going to do this exercise and just kind of like journal on this. What are the things like if I died? What would I? How would the work go on? And what am I really? Yeah, what am I really doing? And I feel like it was that that kind of triggered this like cascade of, of clarity and just and purpose. And so I think that's a good note to end on. If you're like, yes, what legacy? What is my legacy? Try writing out five things before you die. What do you want to have accomplished? What change Do you want to enact? Yeah, so good. Yeah. Yeah. All right. And this was so amazing. That's a good conversation. And if you're still listening, thanks for hanging in with us till the end. I know, we went a little longer than usual, but I could talk to you forever. So

Lauren Elizabeth 1:06:14

Oh, yeah, this was great. I really appreciate the opportunity to chat with you and to share with your audience.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:06:20

Yeah. where they can find you.

Lauren Elizabeth 1:06:22

Yeah, definitely. So you can find me on my website. Lauren. Elizabeth coaching Comm. I spend a lot of time on Instagram. And you can find me there at Lauren. Elizabeth coaching. Yeah, I like I said, I really love to be in dialogue about these topics. I'm definitely open to learning more. And so and I kind of make the assumption that everyone has something to teach me. So find me in those spaces. And let's talk about how we can do business differently.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:06:50

Thank you. Yeah, thank you.

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