012: Blogging Tips + Online Business Secrets with Jillian Leslie

Kate Kordsmeier 0:01

You're listening to the Success with Soul podcast episode number 12. I'm your host, Kate Kordsmeier. And today we're talking with Jillian Leslie, host of the podcast blogger genius and founder of Milo tree and the insanely popular catch my party blog. Julian has a BA and an MBA from Stanford, and in a previous life was a screenwriter in Hollywood. So she loves a good story. And this episode is no different. I'm so excited to share Julian's infinite wisdom with you guys. Oh my gosh. Okay, we talk about why nobody cares about you and how that's actually a good thing. How listening to your audience as the number one thing you can do to grow your business. And why following an emergent business growth model, meaning bottom up versus top down is the way to go. We're going to remind you that you don't get what you don't ask. For and how important it is to separate your ego from your business. So let's dive in. You're listening to the Success with Soul podcast with Kate Kordsmeier x journalists turned CEO of a multi six figure blog and online business. But it wasn't that long ago that Kate was a struggling entrepreneur who lacked confidence, clarity, and let's be honest money. But all those failures, experiments and lessons learned helped Kate create a thriving business that impacts thousands and brings freedom, flexibility and fulfillment to her life. If you're ready to do the same and make something happen with holistic, soulful, step by step strategies from Kate and other experts, you're in the right place. here's your host, writer, educator, Mom, recovering perfectionist, bookworm and sushi connoisseur Kate Kordsmeier before we jump into today's episode, I'd love to share another listener spotlight with y'all. This one comes from Anna Adler creative who says the universe thought I needed this. It was right. I believe that the universe sends you what you need at precisely the right time. I've been thinking about starting a new business for the past year and this podcast is exactly what I need. Kate is relatable, optimistic and full of practical advice. Can't wait to keep listening. Wow, thank you so much and other creative. The fact that you took the time to leave your honest feedback means the world to me. In fact, if you're listening now please send me a DM on Instagram at Kate Kordsmeier as I've got a special surprise gift I'd like to share with you as a thank you. And if you'd like to be featured in a future listener spotlight, head on over to iTunes Apple podcasts to leave a review. Your reviews are super helpful and motivating to me personally but beyond that, the reviews have help with rankings, which helps others find the show and allows me to keep providing you with free content every single week. I hope to feature you on a listener spotlight soon.

Hey, Julian, thank you so much for being with us today. Oh, I'm excited. I'm excited to be here.

Jillian Leslie 3:21

Thanks for inviting me.

Kate Kordsmeier 3:23

Yeah, of course. So, I just want I kind of hate this question. But it's just like the best way to get into it right is like give us just kind of your background, a little bit of your, your coming up story and where you are now.

Jillian Leslie 3:36

Perfect. Okay. So my husband and I started a website back in 2009 called catch my party and we started it as a side hustle before anybody called anything a side hustle. And I was a writer in Hollywood, actually. And my husband was working at MySpace back in the day. And my husband so you know, my space was all teens and I was a writer and I wrote Teen comedies. So we said to each other, hey, let's start like a website. And what we'll do is we'll kind of do like a photo sharing site. And why don't we do it for teen girls. And it'll be photos of their sweet 16 there was a show on MTV called my super sweet 16 or as like crazy over the top sweet sixteens. And we're like, hey, this would be really cool. So what we did again, we're both working in our day jobs. And we built this site. We hired like some developers and Indonesia, they built the site was pink and purple and crazy. And we then were like, okay, now what do we do? And we started to try to get people teen girls to put their party photos up on our site. And it was kind of weird because I'm like this 30 something year old woman, like kind of to kind of stalking trolling teen girls on the internet and they wanted none of it. Like they'd be like, Who are you and why are you doing this? But we had that chicken and egg problem which is we had this website We needed content on the site, so that people would then come to our site so that people would want to add photos to our site. And it was like, how do we do this? And then one day, all of a sudden, what we noticed was some moms with Etsy shops who were selling party goods, and we're throwing beautiful parties started uploading photos to our site, and we were like, Oh, no, I don't think teen girls are going to want to put their like cool, sweet 16 photos or prom photos or Bar Mitzvah photos on our site, if it's got like Minnie Mouse parties, and, you know, Toy Story parties. And then we took a step back and we said, Oh, wait a second. Maybe this is her site. Maybe this is these are our users. And it kind of made a shift the whole way we thought about our business. And one of the things that I tell people is, when you do something on the internet, the coolest thing about it is you can get like immediate response and you co create if you're listening adding to your audience, what you do is you start co creating with them. So we had no, when we set out to do this, this was not our plan at all. And then we were like, you know what we need to do, we need to lean into this. We need to get moms to add their party photos to our site, we need to welcome the Little Mermaid parties and the frozen parties and all and the baby showers and the bridal showers. And we didn't really know anything about that. But we're like, Hey, this is what our audience is saying to us. And teen girls, again, wanted nothing to do with us. So instead of continuing to bang our heads against the wall, we're like, let's go this way. And that's how we were able to start growing our site. And the other thing we did was we said, okay, if you're a mom with an Etsy shop, we want you to put a link to your Etsy shop on our site because we can help drive traffic to it help get you sales, and then you'd be more inclined to add photos to our site. So we didn't we weren't monetizing that at all. We just thought, Wow, we want to work with you to incentivize you to grow Come

Kate Kordsmeier 7:00

back to our site pure collaboration,

Jillian Leslie 7:02

exactly. Like we're on your side, you know, we want to help, like, help you promote yourself. And that's how we started catching my party. And again, this is the thing that people always ask like, well, how did you grow it to millions of page views a month? And I'm like, it is a slow build. There is no like, people go, what's your magic bullet? I'm like, believe me if I knew what my meant, like, there is no magic bullet, because I'm using it and selling it to you. And it would work for it's just about consistency. And it is about sticking in there and making incremental smart choices. So putting keywords in your posts and making them Google friendly and optimized, you know, optimizing your site speed. I mean, it's all the stuff that people talk about. But to be honest, I think that the secret is consistency. Are you in it is a long slog, and I don't think we that's not sexy.

Kate Kordsmeier 7:59

No, but it is memories.

Jillian Leslie 8:00

And it is about then finding opportunities and finding how people are using your site and leaning into those things. So if you're a lifestyle blogger, and you know you're doing food and travel and parenting, if people are coming to you for your food, go deeper in your food, and people aren't really that interested in your travels, pulled back from traveling, like go build according to where how people are responding to you.

Kate Kordsmeier 8:26

Exactly. I love that so much. And it's like, you have you start out just doing what you're passionate about what you're skilled in and talking about what you want to but it's that balance of listening to your people and looking at the analytics and seeing is this working? Is this what people want. And I think that's such the beauty of online business too, is that you can pivot and you can pivot pretty easily you can

Jillian Leslie 8:54

like new audiences not so up in your business that they're going to be like Kate You know, what are you doing? Like, honestly, it's about how you can serve people. It's true. And

Kate Kordsmeier 9:07

I think we all, you know, our ego gets involved. And we like to think that everybody is hanging on our every word and that they know every piece of content in our library. And if we change something, or you know, whatever, that they would freak out, and it's like, honestly, nobody cares about you that bad.

Jillian Leslie 9:28

No. And in fact, like, I remember back in the day when Instagram came on the scene, and there was Pinterest and Facebook, and people were like, I can't post the same post to all three platforms. And it was like, because you know, people are watching me and being like, Jillian, we already saw that piece of content. And then No, you didn't like if I can get it to you on one of those platforms I want. So I need to post it everywhere. Because first of all, you're not going to go like you're not that interested in me. And if I can reach you in any way possible. That's what my goal is.

Kate Kordsmeier 10:04

Yeah, I think there's two pieces there that stand out to me. The first is that you probably have different people following you on Facebook than you do on Instagram than you do on Pinterest or wherever. And on your email list, etc. And even if they, there is a lot of overlap with those people, the algorithms for each are so different. And, you know, I mean, we could talk about algorithms

Jillian Leslie 10:29

all the time, and I would say is think about your own life. And think about how busy you are in your own life, and how distracted we all are. So if I can somehow even show up for you, like you might not even notice. Yeah, let's say you're in line at Target. And my Instagram post shows up in your feed, you might miss it. So just to think about your audience. Again, they are not hanging on every word. Yours. And the more you can just be available to them and have the other thing, have a very clear message so that if you see catch my party, you know what it is, versus I'm this combination of things. I'm like everything to nobody versus I'm something to somebody. So that, you know, go deep into what you are an expert in and be willing to say I'm an expert at this specific thing. So you know, if you're thinking about party planning, you're going to come to catch my and you've got a two year old, you're going to come to my site, or you're going to go on Pinterest. And chances are you're going to end up on my site. You're going to go Oh, yeah, catch my party. Okay, I get that. Yeah. So, you know, and then one thing we did was we noticed when Facebook stopped driving traffic to all of us, was Pinterest was driving a lot of traffic. And we needed to double down on that because we're watching our traffic kind of dry up. And so my husband who's a technologist, built a pop up for ourselves that lives on our on catch my party, if you go to catch my party right now you'll see it and it will pop out. And it will say Follow us on Pinterest. And that's what he built. Yeah,

Kate Kordsmeier 12:10

that's great. I was gonna ask you to talk a little bit about so this is Milo trees Milo

Jillian Leslie 12:14

tree, which by the way is named after our favorite tree in Hawaii. We were in Hawaii sitting under the tree. And we thought about could we take this piece of technology that he built for us? And could we offer it to other bloggers and other online entrepreneurs because it was working like gangbusters for us growing our following on Pinterest. Could we do this? And then we're like, Well, wait a second. This is totally separate from catch my party. But again, seeing a need, like we scratch our own itch. Yeah. And we built the business and then we built something for ourselves. It worked really well for us. And that's when we said under sitting under the Milo tree. Could we like launch this as a separate business? We did. And again, it's about like, and then we tested it because what because we had a community of people on catch my party, who were say Etsy shop owners and had blogs and stuff. We offered it at first to them, and it worked. And then you have your proof of concept. We had it and then we said, Wait a second, Instagram is really important. Could we create a pop up version for Instagram that pops up? That's really easy to install. It is populated with your most recent Instagram posts or your most recent pin so you don't have to do anything. And it says follow me on Instagram. And guess what if you have traffic to your blog or your website, I promise you it will work and it will convert those visitors into followers and then people said Hey, could we could you do it for YouTube? And we're like, okay, we'll make a pop up for YouTube to grow your subscribers so it will pop up and say you know, follow subscribe to my channel and It'll show your most recent videos. And then we got requests about Facebook. And then we got requests about can you grow your email list from my lottery. So again, we were listening and responding to what people were wanting from us. And we built out our product that way, like, we just recently created a pop up that you can link to anywhere. So let's say you're selling a product, you can have it linked to that link. Let's say you want to grow your tic tock, you can have it linked to your tic Tock like whatever you wherever you want it to link to. It can be a personal link. So a pop ups going to show up and you're going to direct your audience to say, hey, go check this out. And again, we didn't come up with that idea that came from our users and customers saying, you know, it'd be cool if you could just create this and we're like, Alright, we'll see how whether we could and so that's really again, how we built my low trait. And so again, this is the other thing. We recognize that bloggers wear so many hats. And our users are predominantly female entrepreneurs. And you know, a female entrepreneurs care about, they care about their own content. They care about connecting with their audience. They care about pretty photos. And they don't want to dig deep into technology. So we said, How can we build a tool where we make 90% of the decisions on our end, so you don't have to do it. So you can install this on your site in two minutes, and boom, it works. And that was like this realization. So we're the opposite of those widgets and pieces of technology where you have to have like a degree in computer science to set it up, you know, we're like, No, no, no, get this up on your site in two minutes. And that, so it's like, again, listening to our audience. Our audience is not like these tech Bros. Who want all this customization They are again vloggers who go, I want a simple solution. And I can do this and I can feel good about it. And I can trust you guys. So you've thought of everything's, I don't have to think about it, that in our philosophy with my lottery again, what is our audience want? And how can we serve our audience and our customers? So we've been very intentional in terms of building that.

Kate Kordsmeier 16:27

I love that so much. I love everything about everything you just said. And I have a million questions for you now because this is so fascinating to me. So I mean, just on a basic level, are pop ups really an effective way to grow your followings?

Jillian Leslie 16:46

Okay, so they are they work and here's the weird part.

The visitors that you have to your site are typically one time visitors. 85% of your visitors are never going to come back to your site, because they came from somewhere else, you know, back in the day, somebody would hear about you, and they'd go to your homepage, and they'd start at the top, and they'd kind of find their way down to your content. It doesn't work that way anymore. People are coming to your site from all different ways. You know, they're seeing a piece of content on Pinterest, they're seeing something on Instagram, and you're and then they're gonna bounce. Like all of a sudden, as soon as Pinterest came on the scene, everybody's bounce rates when create like so high, because you see that recipe for that lasagna. And you go and you click through, and you don't even know who that person is. And you're not going to remember that food blogger because there are so many other pins on Pinterest. So the goal is to get that visitor and somehow capture them into your universe. And to say, sign up for my list and give me your email address is a little bit of a big ask, especially if they don't know you. But if you say hey, follow me on Instagram. Follow me on Pinterest, especially if you came from Pinterest. And then there's a pop up. This is Follow me on Pinterest, you kind of already know Oh, that's a quality site. I should follow them on Pinterest. And that's an easier ask. And what happens is, that person then is more apt to know you just start to build a relationship with you because your pins if they follow you, your pins are going to show up in their Pinterest feed. So pins so then I get this question to followers on Pinterest really matter? And the truth is they do because what happens is Pinterest shows your newest pins to your followers first. And if your followers start interacting with your pins, Pinterest then will show those pins to a larger audience. And if say somebody comes to your site, and they end up following you on Instagram, that's a really high quality follower because they've already seen your content and they've already followed you. So you have people Like, Oh, don't buy followers, like there are different levels of quality of follower and you want the highest quality follower you can have, because they're the ones who are going to interact with you. They're the ones who are going to signal to the Instagram algorithm, hey, people are really liking your content, we should show it to more people. So yes, pop ups work. They do grow your list. They do grow your followers, and they get a really bad rap.

Kate Kordsmeier 19:28

Yeah. But I think it's so true. What one of the things that came up for me when you were saying that is that a lot of times like I'm in the food blogging space, and sometimes I'll ask people, Oh, where did you find that recipe? And they'll say, on Pinterest, and they don't say the blog that it came from. They act like Pinterest gave

Unknown Speaker 19:49

me right, not the

Kate Kordsmeier 19:50

blogger. So this is making a lot of sense to have just like connecting that. So people that then they start remembering that no, my blog provided you the country. Content Pinterest will help you find it. interests was the search engine? Yes, exactly. I know. And I think even just that is people always think of Pinterest as social media, but it is not at all. It's truly a search engine. So

Jillian Leslie 20:13

sure visual search engine is what it is. And again, you're absolutely right, because food blogs can kind of look similar. And I'm at the grocery store, and I'm scrolling through Pinterest. And again, I want that lasagna recipe. And I click over and I go buy the ingredients. So if you can stop somebody where they are because remember, we're so busy and distracted. And if I can just get you to easily follow me on some platform or sign up for my list. You want to interrupt them in their almost like zombie like mind. Yeah, yeah, that does kind of can potentially get you to stop for just a moment and if you can capture that person into your universe. That's what you want to do because you want to grow your universe, right? You want to build relationships, rather than just be a lasagna recipe to that person. You want to be close to that person or Jillian to that person.

Kate Kordsmeier 21:22

Hey there interrupting this programming for just a second, tell me Do any of the following sound like you. You've been trying to create a successful blog for months, maybe even years, but haven't gained any serious traction that inspires you to keep going. Or maybe you've had some on and off blogging successes, but you feel like you're just winging it. Time isn't your friend. You've got a never ending to do list and you don't know what you need to be doing right now, to stay on track and earn a consistent income. Maybe you don't even have a blog yet. And you're just not sure where to start. When it comes to growing and monetizing a blog, or let's be honest, if it's even possible to make money blogging, well, my friend if you relate to any of these challenges, I've got you covered. I'm about to show you how to generate some serious blogging momentum and my free training three behind the scenes secrets to profitable blogging in 2020 and beyond. If you're frustrated by your lack of progress with your blog despite working tirelessly on it, and if you're ready to unleash your inner entrepreneur badass, who already knows she's worthy and successful and can do anything she puts her mind to, even if your inner critic is currently calling the shots, then this masterclass is a must attend. Head on over to successwithsoul.co/masterclass to register now, it's totally free. That's successwithsoul.co/masterclass. I'll see you there.

That brings me to my next question then which, you know, everybody's always asking me Well, how do you get more followers on XYZ platform? And I'm curious if you think that having more followers, whether it's on Pinterest or Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, whatever, does that actually translate to more income for your blog? Or do you feel like you have to monetize those platforms then individually?

Jillian Leslie 23:28

Explain what do you mean by that?

Kate Kordsmeier 23:30

So like, if you have more followers on Instagram, do you find that that directly translates to more income on your blog? Or do you find that you have to monetize Instagram separately from monetizing your blog?

Jillian Leslie 23:45

Got it? I think this is all comes down to strategy and individual for everybody and it takes really thinking it through. For example, I know a lot of bloggers who feel like the goal is to grow their Instagram followers. And I say to them, why, why? Yeah, getting out of this? And they say, well, I'll figure that out. Once I've gotten to 10,000. And I can get swipe up. Yeah, somehow magically, you're gonna have this, like, it's just gonna, like money's gonna come mailed to your house. Like, it's not like that. So for example, it depends on how you monetize if I monetize with brands, then guess what? Instagram having my followers having a high follower count or not even a high follower count, but an engaged following. Yeah. I mean, if you could have a high follower count and engagement, like you've won the lottery,

Kate Kordsmeier 24:41

right, but

Jillian Leslie 24:42

of those two, I would rather have a lower follower count and high engagement because that's what a brand is looking for. So yes, if that's the case, you can monetize Instagram with brand work, and maybe that brand wants you to do a blog post and maybe that brand wants to do a video and or Maybe they just want you to do Instagram or just an Instagram story. Who knows, because every path is very different. But what I always say is you need a strategy. So let's say you monetize via traffic. Well, Instagram is not going to drive a lot of traffic to your blog, it's going to give you brand awareness. But if you think you're going to get thousands and thousands of visitors from Instagram, that's probably not going to happen. But

Kate Kordsmeier 25:25

Pinterest,

Jillian Leslie 25:26

because remember, it's a visual search engine. Pinterest could drive actual traffic. So depending again, on how you monetize, that's how different platforms work. So with YouTube, YouTube can drive traffic if you're really smart about YouTube. So you need to be creating videos putting them up on YouTube and having links and value add on your site to incentivize somebody to go from YouTube to your site, so forth. Example. You make a video and you say, hey, do you want the downloadable worksheet? Right? Go over to my site. And then you get them on your site. And then they see your military pop up. And then they join your email list or then you get them into your universe. So that can drive traffic. But in and of itself, if I make videos, put them up on YouTube with no direct strategy, maybe again, I work with brands, and they want me to make YouTube videos. But again, followers or subscribers does not directly lead to money unless you go that next step and connect the dots.

Kate Kordsmeier 26:34

Yeah, so true. And I think particularly for Instagram, this is something that I'm constantly talking to my students in the six figure blog Academy about is that they can get so focused on the follower number on Instagram, and they spend all of their time there and I just I do the same thing that you just said. I have to say, Why and in my experience, and most of my peers like exactly What you said Instagram does not translate to blog traffic. It's great for brand awareness. It's great for community building but sometimes people follow you on Instagram for years and they don't even realize you have a blog right and people DM me and say like an ask a question about I go well it's the all the information you just asked is listed on the blog at this post. And those Oh, I didn't even know you how to blog. Like, really get

to my my main point is nobody cares about you. And

Jillian Leslie 27:35

it's not that they wouldn't if they met you. Like they're you know, you're lovely person. But people are just too busy in their own lives to connect the dots that Kate has blogged into therefore it's your job to continually yell that to like from the mountaintops. Here is my blog. Here is what I do like you do not have to be worried That you're a broken record, the more you can communicate to people, what you do and what you want them to do, click here by this, you need to be so direct and especially I've two thoughts, especially as content creators, and especially as women, we have a hard time being direct and telling our audiences exactly what they should be doing to get the most value out of what I'm providing. And it could be buy my product because it's going to give you value because then it's like, oh, I seem a little likes. I don't know. I was

Kate Kordsmeier 28:47

always so afraid of being hurt here. He or she be salesy because nobody assume nobody's paying attention. So when you don't get what you don't ask for. I think that's the big Biggest thing that I'm constantly reminding people is like a, it takes somebody usually seven to 13 times of seeing and hearing about something before they take action. And be if you don't tell them exactly what you want them to do, they won't do it and they'll be confused or they'll be too distracted to really pay attention and figure it out for themselves. So it's like exactly we said, click here.

Jillian Leslie 29:26

Swipe. Yeah, I this and that, just like whatever it is totally. And this is exactly why I say the more people can connect, say, Jillian to my lottery pop up or Jillian to catch my party, the easier it is versus Julian does. I mean, I do do other things. But meaning I do have two weirdly very distinct businesses and a lot of people have no idea that Julian is here and you're right. No, but but it's a Okay because if you connect Julian to catch my party I'm happy if you can add Julian to my laundry I'm happy if you can connect Jillian to both of those. You've won the I mean that to me, you've won the lottery like that is terrific. But I want to be very, I want it to be an easy message. Like that's all I want for it to be. Because I can't tell you how many like people like you have a blog people are like, wait, what, like what do you do? And I'm in very specific niches. So if you are thinking about what niche Am I in while I'm a broad lifestyle blogger, I keep going No, no, no. fine tune your messaging. And then the one other thing I wanted to bring up is, it is weird. That again, I teach people I've have my podcast called the blogger genius podcast, and I talk about this a lot, which is separating out your business from your ego, and more followers grow each week. My ego, but it's not necessarily feeding my business. And that I so many people who can feel like they're doing their job and they're building their business by growing followers, and I say step back, how much of this is really about feeling validated and that it's feeding some deeper place inside of you? Because if that is the case, you need to get honest with yourself and say, Oh, yeah, I grew 100 followers this week. But what does that and again, if that's all you want through, though, go for it, but it doesn't matter. Right. But if you are wanting to make money, then that needs to be the priority. And again, you need to continue to ask yourself, why am I growing these followers and how is how have I connected the dots from follower to income. So just be honest with yourself. And again, if you need if you want, I'm not judging, if you are doing this because it makes you feel good and you get to communicate with your audience, and that's enough for you. Great, but a lot of people conflate the two of I've got a business, but why aren't I monetizing? But really, every time I get a new follower, something's going off in my brain Ding, ding, ding, like I'm okay. And I'm, I'm worthy and all this stuff. And so that I want you to just like take a step back and be honest of what what is feeding.

Kate Kordsmeier 32:36

I'm so so glad you said that. Because I think we can all fall into that trap because of course it feels good to see likes and comments and followers and all of that kind of stuff. And I mean, there's 1000 studies now that show it actually is like a hit to your brain that's similar to taking drugs. I mean it Yeah. And so like We get it no judgment. But I think that's so smart and true to just say, I can't tell you how many friends I have that are entrepreneurs who have, like less than 2000 followers on Instagram and make seven figures in their business. And just because something looks a certain way doesn't mean it is because then on the flip side to there's people that have millions of followers, and aren't doing shit to monetize,

monetize it, they don't have

any strategy to it. And so, you know, like you said, if that's all you're looking for, and you just want that community and validate. Yeah, great, but if you want to create a business and a profitable business at that, it's so true. You have to separate them out. So okay, I have a couple other questions for you about this. So you've got catch my party, you've got Milo tree, you've got your podcast. So do you think of these it sounds like it as three separate businesses or is that There's some crossover in there.

Jillian Leslie 34:01

Okay, so catch my party is a b2c company, which means it's a business to consumer, right, which is mobs typically are on our site getting party ideas. So I kind of put that in a bucket in a separate bucket. Now is there crossover? Absolutely because people know me a lot of people who let's say have party businesses or something know me from catch my party. And then I can say, hey, party business people like that tends to be the crossover from catch my party to Milotree. And again, like, remember, we grew this. I like to call it emergent business growth. an emergent means bottom up rather than top down.

Kate Kordsmeier 34:44

Okay, explain that a little more.

Jillian Leslie 34:46

top down is a plant community. Right? You got the houses over here. You've got the supermarket right here. You've you know, it's all plant and there is it cut, you know, it can work Absolutely. The Internet, I am much more about what's called emergent business growth, which means I'm listening. I'm seeing I'm testing, I'm trying things I'm seeing where I get traction, and I'm building that way. And it looks much more kind of like humans, like we've evolved in certain ways with these weird things called hands, because somehow they served us. And we emerge to look like this. There was not top down. Right, you know, it wasn't like somebody said, Hey, I'm going to make humans and this is, you know, this is what it's going to be like, no it over time, you know, we came out of the ocean, as single celled organisms and emerged. And I think business building in an emergent way, is a more powerful way to do it. But then you end up with I've got catch my party and I've got my low tree and I've got my podcast and how do they all fit together? And so they emerged. So I take my party people who have businesses with catch my party, and those are the first few People who bought Milo tree to put on their sites. And then it got bigger because then there were food bloggers and DIY bloggers and parenting bloggers who saw it saw Milo tree, let's say on. So it was a way for us to seed our second business. Because I had personal relationships with people who are business owners, I could say, well, you test this out, tell me what you think. And then we're able to broaden my load tree just based on the fact that we were able to seed it from our first business, which by the way, is still very viable go to catch my party. Like, we still like that's our you know, that's one of our big kind of assets. Anyway, so then we're able to grow Milotree beyond just party people, and to other people like food bloggers, and then I personally love podcasts. I listened to them all the time. So when it became a question of like, oh, should I you know, start a big YouTube channel like that felt daunting. To me, and this was all because I wanted to I also have an MBA from Stanford. Now I want to say like, you know what, I kind of have this background in business. And you can trust me because it built some businesses and I kind of, you know, studied this. And I love being a perpetual student. So I thought to myself, well, how can I set myself up as somebody who might know a thing or two that maybe, you know, you could listen to me? And you could, you know, connect with me that there's a face behind my logo, because that was one thing that we continually heard was it seemed really corporate and like, not personal. And I thought, well, there is this person behind it, David and I, my husband and I, like let How can I put myself out there? But how can I one, you know, do something like a podcast because I love podcasts, and I understand podcasts, too. How can I set myself up as somebody who might know something about building online businesses and How can I be a perpetual student? And it gives me this calling card to call people up and say, can you come on my podcast? So I can learn from you. Because I've built businesses in a very certain in a certain way, but nobody's business is the same. So if I can get somebody who's done some really interesting things, and and learn from them, like, I can't tell you how many times I'm doing an interview, and I'm like, but my mind is blown like you did that. How did you think to do that? So I get to be a perpetual student. And I get to ask the questions that are that I know my audience is wanting to know, but would be probably too, too. It seems too forward to ask, but because I've got a platform to say no, no, you know, I'm interviewing you. I can say, well, what didn't work or how did you? How did you

make money at

that or what were your struggles, and it's amazing when I can get Somebody to really share about their business. I feel like I have hit gold, because I want people to be learning to be learning along with me to know that I'm a perpetual student. So yes, I've got businesses and you know, a degree, but I'm also in their learning because I think doing online business, if you are not a perpetual student, you will not succeed. It is changing constantly.

Kate Kordsmeier 39:28

I could not agree more. I mean, first of all, we're just so similar because that's exactly why those three reasons are like Check, check, check. That's why I started Success with Soul. And that that mindset of that you are always learning that you never get to a point where you know everything there is to know. And I think the people that say that are the ones that end up having failed businesses because nobody can ever know everything and being that perpetual student and learner is so so critical. So I'm glad you said that. And I think we have some other similarities too. And I want to ask you about this because I struggle with this. I'm curious if you do as well. So you do have these kind of three separate businesses, and there is crossover. And that's kind of how I started to and now that you describe that emergent business growth, I love that that model. That's very much my business as well. So I started Rutan rebel, which was my holistic wellness blog. And after a while, you know, as I was making six figures from the blog, and I had people asking me all the time, how are you doing this? started doing income reports on Route and revel and just talking about it. People were more interested, they kept, I got started getting things like do you do coaching, could I hire you to be my coach? So anyway, long story short, it led to me launching the six figure blog Academy, which is my digital course. And then that ended up being like, this is really a separate thing from this. holistic wellness blog, so I started a whole separate website for it. And now when people ask me what I do, I always say, Well, I kind of have two businesses. I mean, I've been self employed for 11 years. So it's always been difficult to answer the what do you do question which I think all entrepreneurs can relate to. But now I've got these two very distinct, separate businesses. And it's hard to manage them both. And sometimes I'm like, maybe I should sell one and just focus on one thing, you know, or like, maybe I'm over complicating this or so how do you manage at all?

Jillian Leslie 41:39

Um, that is a good question. I have really good teams for each. But will I say that at times, it is a hot mess. It is a hot mess. Like I want to be very honest, because there are days where I have like my list of things I need to get done that day and then something happens And I get completely derailed. And because I have to put a fire out and now like my list just gets longer. So I would love to tell you that like I do. I've got tons of spreadsheets to make things work. But it is a lot of improvisation, even though like so. So I have like certain things like my podcast goes out every Wednesday. And again, I'm a huge believer in consistency. And we post on catch my party three times a week. And we have a schedule and I have this amazing assistant who really manages so much of that. But then I also have other assistants to help her do that. So I feel like you've got to be nimble. And you've got to hire really good people that you can trust, who can take a test and do it and do it really well. Yeah, that's about it. Little to rely on those people.

Kate Kordsmeier 43:03

Yeah. Do you have one? Like, if you have a higher did they handle things across all of your different projects? Or do you have like one person is on Milo tree one. I mean, I'm sure there's more than one person, but you know what I'm

Jillian Leslie 43:16

saying? Mm hmm. I usually the way that I think about it is I want to hire really good people, but I start them off typically with one task. So I break my business down and I go, Okay, look, what is something that I need to I need to get a podcast episode out every week and I do a blog post for it. I do a transcript for it. I make images for it. And a lot of it by the way I am doing because I want to make sure that it is like in my voice, but I have somebody who will make the blog post and I have somebody else who does the training. Transcript. And the person who does a transcript puts them all onto WordPress, but then I go through and read them over to make sure that it's saying what I wanted to say because I was the interviewer. So I want to make sure that like the things that I would highlight from that episode are there. So I've got a bunch of like moving like pieces that come together. And I've been able, again, when I think about it from an emergent perspective, what I typically do is again, I don't do it top down, I do it bottom up, I see a task that I need done, that I've been doing, and I know how to do it, and I then hire somebody to do that task. And if that person knocks it out of the park, I will then give that person another task to do and I build that way, rather than I'm going to hire somebody and then find jobs for them. I would rather have a job, hire somebody for that job, have another job and put that person on to jobs. Then we're that person on three jobs. And that for me has been very, a really great way because then I don't have to micromanage them. They know what they need to do. It's easy then for me to determine does this person do what I asked them to do? And I don't have to be always there going Wait, we wait. Nope, that's not what I wanted. Or you're going in a different direction. It's a very concrete task.

Kate Kordsmeier 45:27

Yeah. That's so smart. And I mean, it's one thing that we've been kind of challenged by lately because we're trying to grow our team a lot. How many people on your on your team now? It's hot. I have one full time person. And then I have Gosh, so many people doing different tasks, but yeah, exactly. It's contractors and tractors. Okay, like, yeah, so So right now we have two full time employees and plus myself, so three, I guess technically. And then we have a couple positions though, that were We're looking at to hire and we've been wondering, do we try to find one person who could do all three of these things? Or should we get one person who's just expert in affiliate marketing? And one person who's expert in email copywriting and automations and stuff? Or do we find somebody who could do you know, who could do both? So I guess your answer would be, give them one thing. And then if they if they knock it out of the park, and you feel like their skills would translate, add the second thing.

Jillian Leslie 46:35

I would say if they do the first thing really well, I will train them in how to do the other things. Mm hmm. So that for example, I will. I will think about what like I'm not necessarily going to look for an affiliate marketer. I am going to figure out for myself what I want to do in a affiliate marketing. And I'm going to create a template for that. And then I'm going to hire get somebody who is really smart, who could do it. But I have found that when I've hired, say, an affiliate marketer or something like that, at the end of the day, they're not doing it the way I would do it. And maybe they do have new interesting ideas. But the truth is, I have been more disappointed when I've tried to hire a quote unquote, affiliate marketer expert. Mm hmm. Versus nobody knows my business like I do. Yeah, I've heard I mean, people say all the time, like you hire for the personality, not the skills, because you can teach somebody skills, but the personality is like, that's ingrained. It's going to be really hard if possible at all to change that. So like you said, you find somebody who's really smart, trainable, and then put them on and what I have found is when I've tried to take shortcuts to say affiliate marketing, you know that you Go do that. It hasn't worked as well, again, because they're putting the stuff that might have worked for some other business on my business and they don't know my business like I know my business. And I have found that I want that I want to give it to somebody. And I've typically been disappointed. Because, again, so much of it is just like, I birth this baby, I breathe, I know everything about it, and you can't know it like I know it. So it's more work for me. In terms of strategy in terms of writing copy in terms of you know, that I don't necessarily, I assume it's going to be a lot of work for me to get that person to what I want them to be doing. And then I every time I've tried to go, Oh, I could take this off my plate. It hasn't always worked that way. Now maybe you could say oh, I'm sort of control freak but I don't think so. I think it is much more about I know what what customer wants much more than some person I can hire. Yeah.

Kate Kordsmeier 49:05

Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, I think there's, you know, a million ways to cook an egg and you just have to figure out what works best for you and your business. And a lot of these things take trial and error which is tough when it comes to hiring because it's a big decision and cost a lot of money and takes a lot of time to train and you know, you want to do it right the first time but I think it's just not always possible way sometimes we just have to learn the hard way. This episode is brought to you by butcher box. As a busy mom and CEO of a multi six figure business there are a few things I love more than services that helped me save time, while also being good for me and the planet. Major bonus right? That's why I love butcher box. They deliver 100% grass fed and grass finished beef and Lamb free range organic chicken heritage breed pork wild caught salmon and scallops and other healthy meat and seafood straight to my door. All of our boxes products are humanely and sustainably raised and free from antibiotics and hormones. And this convenient service takes all the guesswork out of grocery shopping, reading labels and trying to figure out what to buy. My freezer is always stopped. So I almost never have to shop for me at the grocery store anymore, which saves me precious time so I can get back to focusing on my business and my family. If you're thinking it's expensive, think again. The average cost for a butcher box works out to less than $6 a meal and shipping is always free to the Continental 48 states. Plus you can easily pause or delay your subscription at any time so it's truly risk free. When you order your first butcher box today you'll get an exclusive deal of $10 off plus free bacon in your first box when you go to successwithsoul.co/butcherbox or enter a promo code SWS for Success with Soul at checkout their bacon is probably my favorite it's pasture raised heritage breed nitrate and sugar free and is hand over heart the best bacon I've ever had in my life. If your mouth is watering to head over to successwithsoul.co/butcherbox to snag your free bacon and get $10 off or simply enter promo code SWS at checkout. bone appetit!

So I want to go back a little bit to catch my party and Milo tree and wondering if you feel like blogs need a product or service offering now I know Milo tree isn't really catch my party's product, but it's used there. And you did create a separate business with Milo tree. Do you feel like that was? I mean, obviously it was a diversifying your income streams. But do you feel like your blog was successful enough without it or that you really need a product or service in order to really monetize a blog?

Jillian Leslie 52:17

I feel like because things change so quickly that you must have different income streams, you must because for example, with catch my party, we are very vulnerable with Google traffic or Pinterest traffic if they change their algorithms, and we've watched this happen at times where our traffic has gone up and down. And you know, any time your business depends on some other business, you are at the whim of that and you therefore need to go Okay, well, Google's changing its algorithm that's okay. Because I'm also making money through affiliates and I'm also making money through a product or service. So salutely do not put all your eggs in one basket. And we're constantly going okay, well, what else can we do? So you know, we make money via traffic with catch my party, but we also set we also have lots of Etsy products on our site and we make affiliate commission from Etsy and that's a big income stream for us. But then we're dependent on Etsy, like that's he changes their policies, you know, that income stream can dry up. So I am always out there looking for what is my audience asking me for what, who we provide them? So for example, because us too, you know, I have my podcast and people are listening to it. And what we realized was there was a whole contingency of people listening to the podcast, who didn't yet have blogs. And setting up a WordPress blog can be tricky to do by yourself. Now we know how to do this because I've got David, my partner who's like tech extraordinaire. And so we said, you know, we're going to do, we are going to offer a service for people who are ready to set. In fact, we'll talk to you about this offline, to help people set up WordPress blogs easily and optimized. You know, again, we feel like we know what we're doing. So we can make the decisions on our end to get you a WordPress blog set up with the right plugins, with the right optimization. We want to do that for you. And we want to be there for any technical questions that you have. But that came out of listening to our audience. So I started my podcast because I want a bloggers to install Milo tree on their websites. And what we realized was, there's a whole contingency of people listening to my podcast who don't yet have blogs. So I could look at that and go, Oh, no, those aren't my target audience. You know, those people are not buying Military doesn't work for them. Or I could say, wait a second, here's a whole group of people that we can serve in a different way, because they haven't even started their journey. So if you're interested, by the way, go to Milotree.com/blogstart. And we'll set up your WordPress blog for you now, we didn't even know that was a an issue. And then we learned that and we said, How can we serve that? Because ultimately, then I want those people to build businesses and then use my load tree. Right so I'm but I also am desperately connected to online entrepreneurs, because I personally think there is nothing better if you could take your fate in your own hands and go build your business and then I too, have just started so then we we built we set up a bunch of people and their blogs, and then they said to us, what do I do? And I said, Oh, okay, I'm going to start a coaching Group which I just have started because again, we saw a need. We didn't even know this existed. We saw a need of people where they're like, okay, now I've got, you know, okay, we solved this problem, they need a blog will set your blog up, it will be exactly what you need. And then they go, Okay, now I want to start my business, but I don't know exactly how to do that. And we're like, oh, we could solve this need. And so we could start coaching people to figure out what is your niche? And how do you and because I've got David I can, we can handle all the technical questions. And we can handle all of the content marketing questions, and all of that. And so that's again, that idea of listening to your audience, and figuring out how you can solve their problems.

Kate Kordsmeier 56:48

Yeah, exactly. Brilliant. So you've mentioned david, your husband and he's your business partner as well. What is that like? How do you like working with your husband?

Jillian Leslie 57:00

Okay, I have people say to me all the time, oh my god, I could never work with my husband. But David and I met working together. So we kind of had kicked the tires before saying, Let's do this. And there is no buddy, who I respect more who I trust more who he is like, he's awesome. And so it's been kind of again, as part of our really our relationship came out of work. So I know what he's like as a partner, both in life and in business. And so I feel like nobody has my back like him, and nobody is as smart as him. So I always tell him, I go, I'm so happy that I like, attached my cart to your horse. And I feel like So in that respect for us, it really works, but I understand where like, and he's really cerebral, and I'm much more kind of heart focused. And so we're really nice yin and yang balance for each other because I'm the one who's shooting for the moon. And he's the one Who's got his feet grounded? And so he can tell me when I'm off the off my rocker and I can kind of pull him and say, No, we need to go build this or do this. And I think it's a really nice balance. And also the other thing I would say, if you're going to work with your spouse is to have very, again, concrete areas. So he does all of the technology. And I don't, you know, and I do all of this stuff where I'm connecting to people. And we do, again, make all big decisions together. But having our own separate domains is very, very valuable. And I've talked to other people who work with their spouses. And the more he can have, like, the more each one has ownership, the better it is, rather than it being just a mush. Yeah,

Kate Kordsmeier 58:53

yeah. I'm always trying. Well, first, I'm always saying how much money do I need to make to bring my husband on To work with me instead of having him work in his corporate job, and I don't know what that number is, but I also I'm always trying to get him to, to come over because I think I would love it. But it's I mean, it's so nice that you guys had very clear roles. Right from the beginning. It was like an obvious place of where to put each of you. Yeah, we don't have that. So Matt, my husband, he is in commercial real estate and finance. And so sometimes I'm like, Well, some of that could maybe translate and he's like, well, I don't want to just be like doing our taxes. You know, like, that's not my dream job here. Or even like managing the finances of your company. So I'm always kind of like keeping my my eyes open to, oh, maybe Matt could do this job or something like that. Right. I know, there's cons to and some people are like, I could never work with my spouse. So any don'ts that you would recommend or maybe it's something you've learned the hard way of working with your spouse.

Jillian Leslie 59:59

I feel thing that we have, again, like we wear so many hats, we're parents together, we're, you know, husband and wife, and we're business partners. And there are times when I feel like, I'll be working, you know, he's his desk is like right over there. And at the end of the day, I've been with him all day. And at the end of the day, I will say to him, God, I miss you. And because you can get so wrapped up in work that you lose sight of like, Oh my god, you're like my fun partner. So we will make an effort and because we're home during the day, we do lunch dates, where we live in Austin, and we're new to Austin. So we'll pick a restaurant that we've been always wanting to go to. And my daughter who is almost 13, like hates like h3 foods. So what we do is when she is in school, we'll go out and we'll go Okay, let's just go to this restaurant that we've been wanting to go to. Now. Will we talk about work Also Yes, like we won't say like, we can't talk about work. But just having those experiences together I think is very, you need to make sure that you keep your marriage Top of Mind and you don't just become business partners.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:01:16

Yeah. It's almost like that concept of like, sometimes I think we see our friends and family members that don't live in Atlanta, more than we see those that do. Because when they're right there, you're like, Oh, we could do it later. You're right here. So it is like you have to really make an intentional prior, you know, making an intentional priority. So I make a lot of sense because you think what we spend every waking moment together, how could I miss you, but it's like, are you actually spending quality time together? Are you just in the same room?

Jillian Leslie 1:01:48

And there's something about continuing to make each other laugh? Yeah, like, I think he's really funny and he makes me laugh and there is something to that. That, that it just creates like, Oh, yeah, you know, this is what, this is what I love about you. So continuing to keep that top of mind, and as long as we're laughing, I feel like we're in the right direction. You know, it gets stressful and and that can be hard because you can't like get away and go to your spouse and complain about your coworker.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:02:26

Oh, wait, that's you.

Jillian Leslie 1:02:27

Right? So it's like, kind of weird. So as long as and the good thing about my husband is, He doesn't tend to take things very personally. Like he's not because again, he's so cerebral that he will like put his brain on it, you know? And so he's not he doesn't get his feelings hurt very, not that I'm trying to hurt his feelings, but he can kind of like intellectualize stuff. And so there's something very nice about having a partner like that. Because I'm not walking on eggshells. Yeah,

Kate Kordsmeier 1:02:57

yeah. That's great. That's great. So okay, we're coming up on the end here we have these five questions that we asked everyone on the podcast so it's kind of like lightning round just gut reaction. Don't overthink it. Just quick answers. So the first one is what is your favorite way to make time for self care while running your own business? Just like one thing? What do you love to do to take care of yourself?

Jillian Leslie 1:03:22

yoga, hot yoga, and hot baths.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:03:27

We are cut from the same cloth. Yeah, I love it. Okay, what is one tool or strategy, so something like Milo tree but obviously, pick something else that you use to help you with time management,

Jillian Leslie 1:03:43

Google Sheets and Google Google Docs, I would die without it. Me too. I tried again, fancy products. And I just end up always doing what is super easy, which is and I share them with the But that's how I communicate. I use Slack, also to communicate with team members. But otherwise, it's just down and dirty, ugly Google Docs. I love it.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:04:11

Yeah. Where would we be without Google Docs? I couldn't agree more. Okay, what's the most powerful business mindset or entrepreneurial book that you've ever read? Like the one that you reference again and again, and has just made the biggest difference in your life?

Jillian Leslie 1:04:27

Ooh, that's a good rework. I think it's called. It's like by the guys who do Basecamp they've booked my love their books. And what was their first one? They're just all about go. And constraints are good,

Kate Kordsmeier 1:04:45

huh? Okay, I will. rework you said it was called work rework. Okay, I'm gonna have to check that out. I haven't heard of that. Now. I'm gonna have to check to make sure that's the right title. But yes. Okay. We'll make sure to we'll put it on notes for everyone. The guys who do base camp, how do you base camp? Okay, perfect. Let's see. Okay, what's your favorite quote mantra affirmation for when things get tough and you feel like just giving up?

Jillian Leslie 1:05:13

DONE is better than perfect. Yes.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:05:16

I have to tell myself that on a daily basis.

Love it. Okay,

Jillian Leslie 1:05:22

last one. My other one. My other one. Strive for B minus work.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:05:27

Yeah, sometimes good enough is good enough.

Jillian Leslie 1:05:31

Yes, an insecure as an insecure overachiever. I really take that to heart.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:05:37

Yeah. Oh, I love that. We are very, very similar. Okay, what does Success with Soul mean to you? Do you believe you can create a wildly successful profitable business without selling your soul?

Jillian Leslie 1:05:52

I do. And I think you need to define what success is for you.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:05:57

Hmm. So what does success look like? You

Jillian Leslie 1:06:00

success looks like freedom for me.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:06:03

Love it.

Jillian Leslie 1:06:04

Yeah. Beautiful freedom to be my own boss and to chart my own path.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:06:10

Yeah. I think so many of us myself, definitely included can wrap up so much of our self worth in our income. And separating that out has been like one of my biggest challenges as an entrepreneur. So yeah, focusing on things like freedom is such a better way to do it.

Jillian Leslie 1:06:32

And the money is great, but again, like money can also if you're in like a really high paying job, but you've got an awful boss. You have to go like where where do I get my happiness?

Kate Kordsmeier 1:06:45

Right? Yeah, exactly. And we always say like, it's all about the money, and it's not about the money at all. Yeah, both are somehow true, but yeah. Well, thank you so much, Julian for coming. On let people know where they can find you and follow you on all the all the platforms and yodeling. Yeah.

Jillian Leslie 1:07:06

Okay, so I so definitely check out my podcast which is called the blogger genius podcast and you can find it on iTunes and Stitcher Google Play Spotify. also reach out to me I'm really easy to get in touch with Jillian@Milotree.com or Jillian@catchmyparty.com, they both go to the same inbox. But if you have any questions, I'm here like I my I feel like my purpose is to help people find freedom, really, in so many different ways. And if you don't have a blog yet, and you need one, we will happily help you set it up. So it's milotree.com/blogstart. And we'll get that up for you. Great. Thank you so much. Oh, this is such a pleasure. Thank you.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:08:01

Thanks for listening to the Success with Soul Podcast the place to be for holistic online business strategies and achieving more with less, as this show is a brand spankin new any and all support is greatly appreciated. So if you haven't done so already, please subscribe on the apple podcast app, Google podcast, app, Spotify or wherever you listen. This makes it possible for me to continue to provide free helpful content and bring you amazing guests. You can also give us a rating and review with your honest feedback so we can improve and better serve you in the future. Plus, you could be featured on a future episode during our listener spotlights. Your reviews are super helpful and motivating to me personally. But beyond that reviews help with rankings, which helps others find the show and allows me to keep providing you with free content every single week. Share the podcast with your friends, family, coworkers, dogs, cats, neighbors, whoever and don't forget To join the free Success with Soul Facebook community at successwithsoul.co/Facebook. We have follow up conversations about the podcast episodes and I often go live to answer your burning questions. Plus, you'll get to hang out with like minded bloggers and heart centered online business owners exchanging priceless feedback, encouragement and other golden insight from the trenches. That's successwithsoul.co/Facebook. Until next time, remember to celebrate your progress, not perfection.

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