142, Automating Business Processes to Save Time with Devin Lee

 
Introduction to the Success with Soul Podcast

You're listening to the success with soul podcast, where we believe empowering women is the key to creating a brighter future for us all. Whether you're an entrepreneur employee or stay at home, mom, this podcast is for you. I'm your host, Kate Kordsmeyer and ICF life and business coach, who has made over 2.

2 million while working less than 25 hours a week. Raising two toddlers and quitting social media. I'm here to transparently share my expertise and help you create a life and business you love together with my diverse team of passionate women, many of whom you'll hear from on this podcast. We empower thousands with holistic strategies, personal development resources, and mindset tools to find freedom.

Flexibility and fulfillment in business and beyond every week. We offer life coaching for busy women who want to improve their relationships, self care and overall wellbeing and business coaching for coaches, course creators, and consultants who want to make money sustainably. We believe personal growth and entrepreneurship are powerful tools for creating social change and the world is a better place when more women find their voice and create their own money, power, and freedom.

Expect candid conversations and insightful interviews with experts that will inspire and support you on your path to intentional, whole living, and success with soul on your terms. It's time to ditch the hustle and find inner peace. Here we go!

Welcome back to the success with soul podcast. I'm your host, Kate Kordsmeyer.

The Power of Systems and Automations

And today we are getting a little bit nerdy up in here. I'm in my happy place today talking all about systems and automations. And if you are somebody who loves to geek out on this stuff too, or you feel like your business was total chaos and all manual effort and you're exhausted, this is for you.

So we've all heard that automations can make things feel less personal, but what if we told you they could actually create a more intimate client experience? So if you're intrigued today, we are diving into the fascinating world of automations and systems and how they can strengthen your client relationships.

Interview with Systems Strategist Devin Lee

We've got Devin Lee, a systems strategist here with us today. She's been an entrepreneur since she was 27. She's a self proclaimed fun big sis for your biz. And she's also a certified online business manager. That's OBM and certified Debsado specialist. So she knows her stuff. Devin specializes in helping you get your time and energy back by perfecting your client's journey and putting it on autopilot.

So let's dive in. Devin, welcome to the show. Hey, so happy to be here. Yes, me too. I love geeking out with other women about systems and automations. And so when we got your pitch, I was like, yes, I'm so excited to talk about this. Yes. I obviously could talk about systems all day, so I'll take any opportunity.

Yeah. Great. Okay.

The Process of Setting Up Automations

Well, so as a system strategist, how do you approach the process of setting up automations for a coach or a course creator who maybe doesn't have a lot of systems in place yet? Totally. Well, you know what I always say is I think people look at systems a little backwards where they hear about all these really awesome tools they should have and they get them and they try and figure them out and it gets really confusing, really overwhelming.

So how I like to approach the process is starting with not even thinking about the systems. I might have some in mind of what would work for that person. But I like to just start fresh of like, what is the ideal, you know, we'll say, for example, the client journey, you want the client to go on from the moment that they get on your website and say that they want to work with you to offboarding.

Or maybe if you have speakers that come into your program, like, what do you want their experience to be? And we kind of take it from there. And then once we know what we want the flow to look like, then we can say, okay, what tools do you have existing that you like working with that you want to continue working with?

And then what can we add and from there, we kind of build a tech stack based on what the person likes to use, what's in their budget and kind of take it from there. And then we might edit the flow based on like, well, you know, Asana has all these capabilities. So now we can kind of shift things like that, but it really starts kind of tools agnostic.

Yeah, I love that because I think you're right. And I'm totally guilty of shiny objects with different tools. I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is so cool. But actually starting with like, what do you need first and then finding the tool that serves that purpose rather than finding the tool and being like, how could I use this right?

I mean, I'm guilty of like over systematizing, like I want to use all the bells and whistles and that is awesome as something to grow into. Like, I really encourage people to. use tools in tech that they can grow into. But when you're brand new to thinking about systems, like you can keep it super simple and then just layer things on and grow as your business grows.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so I think especially for coaches who maybe started out doing one on one, and then did almost everything really manual because it was just like one client at a time. I mean, there are a lot of ways to systematize and automate that kind of thing. But let's say that you're a coach who's in that position and you're growing into more of like a group program or you're working in the one to many model.

Now, what do you feel like are some of like the first steps that people should take? Yes. Well, I mean, this is where I love working with people where they're like, Oh, no, I'm not just onboarding one or two people a month. I'm onboarding like 10 people a month. So then we really have to get into the automations.

I mean, Airtable is I think baseline you have to have for a group program. In my personal opinion, because of all the automations and Zapier, no matter what other tools you're using, Zapier is going to connect all of them together. All right. My philosophy is if you can dream it, you can automate it. You're only, I only feel limited by like my coding knowledge.

Yeah. But I think that, again, what you do is you think about what is the experience you want folks to have. And then you see, okay, which tools have all these automations and how can they talk to one another. Yeah, I think one of the big fears that people have is that if you automate things, they're going to feel less personal.

Creating a Personalized Client Experience through Automation

So how do you kind of manage and like create a more, you know, intimate client experience while being automated? I love this question because this is a huge myth. People think that it'll, it'll feel like robots are talking to their clients. And the thing is, like, one, your clients will probably know that a robot is talking to them in a sense, and they prefer it.

First of all, I'll say that, like, I just joined a little networking group that's really, really tiny and it's really new and I didn't pay a lot because I like the mission and I like the person who's starting it. And I can tell that they're doing everything manually and I can tell because it's taking them a week to get me everything I need.

And then when I click through, a lot of the links are broken and I really like this person and I'm okay because they're newer at this. But if I was paying more money for this, I would have higher expectations. Like I immediately want to get an onboarding email as soon as I pay telling me what I need to know, the links to sign in.

And you know, when you have everything automated and you're not having to manually figure out everybody's schedule and email them their logins, then you can take the time to craft a really beautiful, heartfelt welcome email or goodbye email. Like that's where folks I think really want to see your values and your personality is in that content.

It doesn't have to be personal. And I think people don't want it to be personal. Yeah, that's such a good point. Do you want people to get what they need when they need it? I think people care more about that than that you like called them or like noted something specific about, you know, and there are even ways to do that in an automated way.

So if you want to, you know, get super advanced with it, it's like there's all kinds of custom fields you can add to things so that their stuff is personalized. But yeah, such a good point. Do you have, like, any creative or surprising ideas of how to up level the client experience with those, like, wow moments that don't take you, like, manually doing it?

Yeah. See, this is the thing. Once you have the basics automated, and I am a big dubstado girl, so, like, I don't My whole client experience is totally automated. Um, once you have the basics, then you can go back and say like, how can I add in like a little dash of delight and a little bit of surprises. For me, and listen, everybody's brand is different.

My brand is a little bit fun and quirky. So like I will spend. time finding the perfect gif or gif, you know, depending on how you pronounce it so that there's like a little bit of fun. I love finding emojis. I always want things to be my brand colors and I could spend extra time doing that because things are automated.

One of my favorite things to do for certain packages that I have is as soon as someone pays an invoice, I have a to do that's automatically sent to my project management tool that fills in the client's name and their address. Uh, or their business address and a link to a website where I like to buy client gifts.

So then, yeah, it takes me about five minutes to go through and check out and send them a client gift. But, you know, this is a one on one client, so, you know, I only get a few of them a month, but it really adds that extra dash of delight before they even start working with me. And same, you know, sometimes I'll even buy them a coffee gift card.

For a local coffee shop. I try to not do Starbucks, even though I know that's easy. If there's a local coffee shop, I'll buy them that. And that will be really surprising to them. And even though that part is manual, because I'm using something like Dubsado to fill in all the information for me, I don't have to dig around or even think about it.

Like, it just pops up as a task. You know, when I have a V. A. I go in and out of having V. A. is depending on what's going on in my business. But if I had a V. A. Like they could do that for me pretty easily. Right, right. Exactly. We literally have the same thing set up for client gifts. So I love that you do that too.

And it does make it so easy where yeah, all the information is automated. And then yes, there's you know, five minutes that somebody has to actually go in and like put it in the cart and check out. But So much easier that way than just like trying to even remember, Oh, wait, who did I onboard this month?

And what are the things that I'm supposed to do now? And yeah, all of that. Exactly. Yeah. So what are some of the biggest like automation mistakes that you see people make? Ooh, that's a good question. I mean, this is kind of a cheat. I feel like the biggest mistake is using no automations. Yeah. People do not realize how much you can automate.

I think people are afraid of automations, but once you kind of dip your toe in, um, you can really go crazy. I think maybe the biggest mistake people use is setting up automations and then forgetting about them. And this is where SOPs really come in handy. If you have a documentation of Which automation is doing what?

Then let's say you have a new product or you need to update something. You can easily track and see like, Oh, this is where this is coming from. Let me go tweak this now that it's a new quarter or the name has changed. You can kind of leave a breadcrumb trail for yourself. Yeah, that's such a good point.

We have a lot of things where it's like, Not everybody on the team, you know, is tech savvy or wants to understand everything, but we like make everybody kind of go through our like little mini tech training to just understand, look, when you do this, it's going to trigger this thing. And so like, just know, and sometimes it's like, so don't do it because we can't, you know, you don't want to break something or like, here's how you could break something.

Don't turn this off thinking it's not going to affect anything. And. But having yeah, that breadcrumb trail has been really important to just like there's especially once you get started, like you said, now we have dozens if not 100 plus automations and things happening and it's like it's a lot to even just hold in your own brain.

So even if it's just you doing all this stuff to just be able to remind yourself how everything fits together. Staying organized is key. Always. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.

The Role of Automation Tools in Business

You've mentioned Airtable and Zapier. Are there any other like favorite automation tools that you use? Yes. I mean, I've mentioned Dub Sado. Dub Sado is my personal favorite because you can take a whole journey or workflow and automate all of it and then connect it to Zapier and then connect it to Airtable.

And then, you know, I'm a big fan of ClickUp and Asana because they have some native automated capabilities. But really the key, I think, is Zapier. Like once you have Zapier, your world totally just opens up. Right. You can make anything happen. Um, have you heard of Make? I have been hearing about make, you know, it's so funny because when I first heard of make.

I heard it could possibly be better than Zapier, have more capabilities. But in my mind, I'm like, okay, well, all my clients use Zapier. So I'm not going to learn a new tool that my clients aren't using. But now that I've been hearing more and more about it, I think it's time for me to start messing around.

Yeah. Yeah. And getting my hands dirty. I know. I like to just go play in that stuff too and see like, what can you do? We have not started it either. We're still with Zapier and overall, I really like Zapier, but it can get. expensive, especially if you have automation set up where like we had one where when somebody signs up for our email list, it adds them to our SMS database and we were running ads.

And so we were having like 500 zaps firing every day doing, you know, like things like where you're just like, okay, now all of a sudden I'm paying like the, you know, super high tier for Zapier. And apparently make is. Is different than that and doesn't charge you based on the number of tasks that it executes.

So I know you're better to watch out. I know. I think it could be a good savings, but I can't speak with any kind of firsthand knowledge on it. I have not tried it myself.

The Workflow of Dubsado

And so tell me a little bit more like Dub Sado. I know some people are probably familiar with it, but if you pretend like nobody knows what Dub Sado is like, how exactly are you using it for like the workflow that you mentioned?

Yes, oh my gosh, I, uh, I could talk about Dubsado all day. So I like to specify because I think people can get a little confused because there's so many names and platforms being thrown around. So I'll, first of all, start maybe just throwing many definitions to the things I've been talking about. Like Zapier does automations, but Asana and ClickUp are project management tools.

Airtable is a database and Absado is a CRM. So that's everything having to do with your client. So canned emails, invoices, contracts, proposals, question errors. Scheduling that can all live inside of Dubsado and everything can watch each other and trigger each other and you can have the automated to do's all live within Dubsado and so anything having to do with a client.

I try and do natively inside of Dubsado. And then what I'll do is I'll take a ZAP, ZAP from Dubsado to Airtable to enter in the client's information. Now that client is in my client database, or I'll have a to do ZAP from Dubsado to my project management tool. So now all my to do's triggered at the appropriate time in Dubsado are now living in my project management tool.

Which I think is more answers than questions you asked. No, no, that's exactly what I wanted to know. And then. Okay, perfect. What's the workflow that you use just within Dubsado? So like a client or somebody, you know, you send an invoice or like maybe start at the beginning. Like somebody is interested in what is your automation system look like?

Totally. I mean, I have so many workflows in Dubsado, but I'll use to get really meta. I'll use my Dubsado VIP day workflow as an example. I know Dubsado so well. I can do it all in one day. And so how that starts is from the moment someone applies to work with me, they're automatically sent an email saying, thank you for applying to work with me.

Here is a scheduler to set up a time with me. Then we can meet, talk it out and make sure we're a good fit. And then as soon as that's done. Dubsado will send them if I say yes, it is a good fit and they agree that it's also a good fit. Dubsado will send them all in one a proposal, a contract, an invoice, and all is in all like one window with three tabs.

So it makes it super easy for people to just Say yes, this is what I want to do. I'm signing the contract and I'm paying. And from there, it triggers. Here's your onboarding email. Here's everything you need to know. A big fan of just reminding people constantly. Here's what the schedule looks like. Here's what I need from you because people are busy and they forget.

So I do a lot of here's what comes next. And then from within there, there is their pre work questionnaires. So I get everything I need. What I love about a VIP day is I could do the same thing, not a VIP day, and it'll span over two months because of all the back and forth. But how I like to do is I start with once you finish these three questionnaires, then I have everything I need to begin and just jump right into it.

Um, and also Dubsado sends out reminders if folks are not finishing their homework, it checks in like once a week, like, hey, just making sure, do you have any questions, just a reminder, like, you need to schedule within this time frame, so Dubsado sends all those reminders for me, same with the proposal, it's so nice, because then I don't have to think about it, I have literally multiple times gone on vacation while Dubsado is doing all this work for me.

I think I did the math once. There's like 45 steps in this particular workflow and Dubsado does all but three of the steps for me like annually. And then so from there, after once they're done with their pre work questionnaires, then we get scheduling. We schedule our pre call, our VIP day, our off boarding call.

Then that's when I step in and I'm like drafting their workflows for them, getting it all set up for them. I do the VIP day. We have our offboarding call. And then I have a whole offboarding workflow. That's, you know, I have a whole like next steps guide that's like homework for them because they have 30 days of support.

And then throughout the 30 days of support, they're being emailed. Hey, will you fill out this feedback form and let me know how things went for you? Here's what you should be working on this week. Do you have any questions? Just, you know, you have one more week and it sends them. so much information that I had to write once and I tweak maybe once a quarter.

And then it checks in after six months just saying, Hi, how are you? How did the project go? I want to know and kind of keeps the relationship going for me. So good. I love it. Hello.

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Exploring the Impact of AI and Automation

Any tools or like cutting edge tech that you've heard about trends on the horizon? I mean, obviously, AI is a big thing right now. Like, what are you excited about what's to come in the world of systems and automation? I mean, chat GPT has really, I think, changed everyone's business. I have been following a lot of conversations for and against a I, um, I see both sides.

I think it's just like anything like the Internet has done a lot of damage and brought a lot of good. The way I see a I is yes. It is something that will, I think. Change and possibly take away a lot of jobs and I think the new jobs for us is do you know how to use AI like right for me right now I'm trying to learn how do I speak to chat GPT so chat GPT is helping me write formulas for air table because I don't have them all memorized yet but chat GPT will write a step by step guide of how to create a formula or a roll up for me and so yeah I know you you're the one who gave me that answer but it really is like It's just completely changed the way we're all doing everything so quickly and excited to see what happens.

The Role of Social Media in Business

And also relevant as of today, everyone's talking about Instagram threads, which is not systems, but I'm not on social media, so I did not see this, but I'm in a face. I mean, this is kind of social media, but I'm in a Facebook group for a program that I'm in. And so I just logged in today and it said the first post in there was like, okay, who's on threads.

And I'm like, what's threads. I don't know what this is. I understand why people are excited about threads, but well, some of my systems in my business are ones that are helping me get away from social media because I don't like to be on social media. I'm trying to make my business social media optional, and I know everyone else I know also hates being on social media.

So I'm trying to get systems in place where I'm, you know, how do I keep up with my referral partners and my colleagues? What systems do I have in place for pitching to podcasts and being introduced to podcast hosts because that's how I build relationships and talk about my business. What is my system for having a regular newsletter?

That's high quality that people are really engaged with. And so the time I spend on social media is just part of a system trying to get myself off of social media. Yeah. We are obviously social media free business since 2021 and it has been amazing. So we have lots of systems that, I mean, it's a big part of what we do in our mastermind is like teaching people how to, how to still get.

leads and clients and still make money and grow your business even without ever posting on Instagram ever again. And it's totally optional and possible. And I'm always like, I personally don't like social media. If you love it and it's working for you, you do you. But if you don't, or if you feel like it's just something that you have to do, like it's not true.

I mean, you don't have to do anything, right? Like it's your business. You get to make the rules. I agree. And I think, you know, I think we all default to social media because you have the vanity metrics. It's really easy to get feedback immediately, but I'm someone who like I do okay on social media. Like, I really nurture my audience there.

I get leads from social media. And I can say the amount of effort I have cut into social media over the years does not equal the ROI. Like it just isn't worth it for me. That's just, I mean, 99 percent of people that I talk to say the same thing. It just feels like it's a very high effort, low return activity.

And I'm all about, you know, everybody always is talking about like passive income and doing things on autopilot. And it's like, There's nothing about social media that is passive and on autopilot. Even if you have things like pre scheduled or whatever, it's still, you know, just, it takes a lot of effort to continually nurture your audience and you're starting at zero every single day.

And yeah, so. I'm curious what some of those systems that you've started working on are letting you spend less time on social. What are those looking like?

Strategies for Reducing Social Media Dependence

Yes, I love to talk about this because I feel like it took me so long to find a system that worked for me. And this is what I tell people, like you might build a system and it might feel good for a month and then you have to tweak it.

Like that's okay. It's, it's an art more than a science, but the system I have right now is it's pretty much all through Airtable. Where I have an air table where all my like ideas live, and I see it in three sections, which is like the ideation, the written words, and then it's been scheduled. And so I have a form from this air table base that I basically set up as an app on my phone, because all my best ideas come when I'm at drinks with my friends or going for a walk like nowhere near my computer.

So anytime I have a little bit of an idea, I fill out my own form with the topic. And then I have scheduled in my calendar, like this is my time of the week where I sit down and I work on marketing and I say, okay, what are my ideas? Let me flush those out and then change the status to, to be scheduled.

And then it kind of moves down the pipeline from idea to be scheduled. And then once it's ready to be posted, then I can say, okay, well, these are the dates that I think it would fit into my marketing calendar because of course it's all tagged with different themes. So my themes right now for like, for the summer.

My newsletter themes are team system. So all the ideas I have and all the to be schedules that I have written labeled as teams, then they get dates attached. Every Thursday I send out a newsletter. Sometimes on Tuesdays if I'm feeling really excited about something. Have you ever heard of get Toby or Toby?

The Power of Time Management and Systems

No, you're gonna love it. It's like an tab aggregator. It's an app on Rome. So I have like, uh, yeah, I have a section that's just called marketing. And when I click it, it opens up my air table calendar. It opens up my convert kit. It opens up giphy. com where I like to find all my gifts. And then it opens up Facebook meta suite and LinkedIn.

Oh, and it opens up my blogs as well. And so it starts like for me, it starts out as the email, like that is where I really want to focus on my time. And then I'll schedule it to like Facebook and LinkedIn, which are not important to me. That's not my focus, but I want to put content there just so people can see that I'm active.

So when I'm scheduling my email, I'm scheduling, um, my Facebook and my LinkedIn as well. And my blog as well, just for SEO. And then, if an email does really, really well, then I will make a TikTok or an Instagram real about it. If I also have the emotional energy, I will then turn it into short form video.

So it kind of all starts and just moves down the pipeline and it's all scheduled in. And that way I'm really keeping track of everything and it kind of gets repurposed based on how well it does. So I'm not just posting the LinkedIn just to post to LinkedIn. Right. So interesting. I'm curious why you use Airtable for that instead of like ClickUp.

Or whatever project management tool you like. Because I use the free version of Asana because I don't need the paid version because it's just I'm an entrepreneur and it doesn't come with forms and Airtable does. Oh, gotcha. Okay. ClickUp would work beautifully as well. Yeah, just the way that you were kind of talking about the workflow.

I mean, they both tools make sense, but I was curious if there was a reason that air table was your preferred tool for that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm a small enough business that I can use all of the free plans. But if I was building systems for someone who had the paid version of ClickUp, yeah. Introduce them to that too.

Yeah. Paid version of ClickUp is worth every penny. It's really fun with ClickUp. Oh my gosh. It's so great. I've now like automated and systematized everything even in my personal life. Like my husband and I's communication and things we have to do for, you know, money dates and like all our household chores and stuff.

It's. it just makes me happy. That makes my heart sing. Yeah. I have to try to not systematize everything in my personal life because I end up saying like, Oh, my girlfriends don't want me to make an air table form for our dinner dates. Like they just want to show up and I'm like, Oh, if I send you this form asking your dietary preferences and the topics you want to discuss.

And it's like, no, women's center can be casual. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's so funny. Yeah. I would totally be that person. That's like, okay, I have a whole work. Yeah. A whole workflow set up for this. Start here. I love it. I was scheduled for the night . Yeah. Oh my gosh. It's too funny.

The Journey of Entrepreneurship and Overcoming Challenges

Okay, we're coming up on the end here.

I wanna make sure I get to all of the questions. So let's see, what haven't I asked you that people need to know? Oh my gosh.

Promoting Business Offers and Services

Nothing that I can think of, but I will say, um, I have a new low ticket offer called Inbox Zero Hero. Hmm. It's a five day mini course right to your inbox that helps you get to inbox zero for the rest of your life.

If that's something you're interested in, you can go to my website and get Inbox Hero Hero. And it's a little taste, if you're newer to systems, it's a little taste of systems because there's some habit forming, there's some filtering, there's some automations, and it's a nice little intro to systems. I love it.

So good. Okay. I think that's a great place to end. So we are going to move into our quick lightning round that we have here. So just a handful of questions.

The Importance of Self-Care and Time Management

First thing that comes to your mind, what is your favorite way to make time for self care? Blocking it off on my calendar. I will say, um, I started, uh, doing Oasis days again.

It's a based on a book called Oasis day, how a day off can save your life. So on Sundays, my partner and I, we turn off our phones, we turn off our laptops. We're totally tech free and we just walk around town and just completely wing it. And it makes such a bigger impact on your life than you think it would.

So that has been a big self care. Oasis day. I love the name of that. I have freedom Fridays, which is. My team and I all have a four day work week, and so there's no work on Fridays. And then I don't turn my phone off. That would be a whole another level of freedom. I should maybe try that. It feels crazy at first because the first hour you're like, what if there's an emergency?

Yeah, there is no emergency, right? Right. Or like, well, then they'll call my husband and it'll be like, there's somebody else. Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting. Okay. What is one tool or strategy you use to help with time management or maybe a system? Oh my gosh. I, uh, for many years gave a workshop on time management.

And so I'm like scrolling through, like, what was my favorite thing? No, I'll say I'll be super simple having a watch. I have had a watch since I was 14 and I think, I don't know if this applies to anyone else, but I just at all times know what time it is. And I don't have to look at my phone to know what time it is.

So I don't get distracted. And I think it helps me just inherently know what time it is. No matter where I am. That's so interesting. Do you mean like a legit watch or like an Apple watch? No, Apple. No. Like a face watch. Yeah. Like you're telling time. I'm telling time. And also I think it's nice one because then I don't get distracted by, because the moment I checked the time on my phone, I completely forgot what I was doing.

Yeah. Um, and also if I'm like at coffee with a friend or anything social. I'm a big fan of like, no phones because even if my phone is out face down, you think I'm somewhere else, but I can like gently politely check the time if I'm wearing a watch. So I'm a big fan of a watch. So good. Okay. What is one of the most powerful business mindset, entrepreneurial books you've ever read?

It's hard to choose. There's so many good ones. Some favorites that come to mind when I very first started my first business, which was much different than this. I read book yourself solid and essentialism. And those, um, yes, it taught me lessons is, you know, essentialism has some lessons that I wove into my inbox zero hero.

Yeah. So that one still carries true for me. Awesome. Okay. And then book yourself solid. I haven't heard of that one yet. So I'll have to check that one out too. Okay. Do you have a favorite quote, mantra, affirmation for when things get tough and you feel like giving up? My own quote or mantra is I cannot go back to a normie job.

Like part of being an entrepreneur is you have the quarterly or yearly freak out where you're like, I can't do this. I have to go back. And I just know I could not. I'm ruined for a normal job. I cannot go back. And I say that on many podcasts. So if anyone ever tried to hire me and looked me up, they would hear me saying, I can't, I'm not hireable.

So that would be the worst employee. Yeah. Like don't hire me. I love it. Yes. Um, yes. To the, at least like yearly, if not monthly freak outs of like, what am I doing with my life? And Also to like recommitting and I just feel like especially lately this year has been a rough one for me and it's just been like Every month, I think I'm telling myself like, you know what, if it's not this, it'll be something else, but it will always be like my thing.

I cannot make nobody can tell me what to do. Yeah, you know, I think about that all the time because my partner has a normie job and sometimes I'm envious of the stability that he has and he gets bonuses and we have healthcare because of him. But everyone's, you know, like every once in a while, his company will lay off 14 percent of their company.

Yeah. And it's a huge national company. I'm like, man, at least I can never get laid off. I might make less money one month, but I'm never going to lose my job. Right. It's really hard as a self employed person to go from making money to 0. Like you said, yes, there's definitely periods where we make less money or it didn't reach our goals or all of that.

But when you're employed, it's like zero or the full thing, but it's very all or nothing. Right. I also am married to somebody who has a normie job and I am grateful that he does not also want to be an entrepreneur. Cause sometimes I'm like, this would be really hard for both of us to do. I'm grateful for your stable healthcare and you know, that, but If he really wanted to it, I'd have to be like, well, okay, because it is that one also, you know, all of the years that my partner has kind of emotionally and physically held me as I've been like, this is so hard.

Like, if he wanted to start his own business to be like, I guess I have to hold you now. Like, we couldn't, we couldn't say no, but it is nice to have the health insurance is the nicest part for me. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, okay. Last question.

Defining Success in Business

What does success with soul mean to you? Oh, my gosh. I think just having a business that stays fully aligned to who I am.

And, you know, a lot of us in this space, we started our own business because the normie jobs didn't work for us. So having an online business isn't new, but I feel like we are really just creating things as we go. And so it's nice that we can really, like, we can really define success in really personal, meaningful.

Ways. Um, yeah, I think I love it. And I mean, it is relatively new though. Still like online business, even if it's a few decades, I'm like, that's nothing compared to other business history, you know, like, so I do think, I mean, everybody's just making it up as they go. I feel like if you ever think, Oh, that person, they've got it all figured out.

No, they don't. 100%. Even it's so funny. You can read all the books and go to all the school and have all the coaches and mentors and consultants. But in the end, like, you have to make the decision and they only you can know, you know, yeah, for sure, Devin, this has been so great.

Closing Remarks and Contact Information

Tell everybody where they can find you and have you help them get totally systematized.

Totally. I always recommend starting at my website, devinlee. com, D E V I N L E E dot com. There you can sign up for my newsletter, you can sign up for Inbox Zero Hero. Um, if you want to find me on the socials, um, my handle is at thisdevinlee. And I'm very friendly, so you can say hi to me in the DMs. Sounds good.

Thanks, Devin. Thanks, Kate.

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